By maredda (209.195.140.107 - 209.195.140.107) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 07:02 pm:

I'm curious to know about some of the LuPine girl groups, particularly the Kittens and Ruby and Her Swinging Rocks. A lot of them didn't do any glamour photos and the like, so we (or I) don't know what they look like. A lot of group lineups are even known. I'd be curious to know if anybody knows anything about the LuPine groups (if you tell me about the Primettes, that doesn't count! :0) ).

Also, I'm wondering if any of our beleaguered Funk Bros. perhaps did instr. work on LuPine.

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Wednesday, October 31, 2001 - 07:33 pm:

maredda, great question. we may have to wait until graham wakes up however! he'll be sound asleep right now.

i could count on one hand the lupine 45's that i have heard.

apparently the 'soon to be funk bros' did backing track on the falcons 'you're so fine' which was issued on robert west's lupine subsidiary 'flick' in 1959.

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 03:59 am:

I think a lot of the female "LuPine" recordings that you're refering to were never originally released.
Are you thinking of the Relic re-issue LPs? I had one once but gave it to one of the Primettes as she didn't have a copy of their song "Tears Of Sorrow" - anyway; from memory - the sleeve notes say that nobody seems to know who was in those various girl groups.
I would add that not even The Primettes, as the one I spoke to said that she'd never been interviewed before in her life.
Which groups are you thinking of maredda?

By maredda (130.49.145.46 - 130.49.145.46) on Thursday, November 01, 2001 - 06:56 pm:

You're right, Acoool, I am thinking about the Relic reissue, which I have, but the thing that I'm unclear about is that though many of these songs were never originally released, there is one song by a group called Ruby and Her Swinging Rocks called "It's Been A Long Time," it's an uptempo and I SWEAR the opening of it bears a great resemblance to Martha Reeves' wailing at the beginning of "Quick Sand." And presumably this was recorded prior to "Quicksand". To me this begs the question of whether any Motowners heard these unreleased songs at all.

And you're right, the liner notes do say that no one really knows who the members of these groups are... I find that fascinating. I'm sure that all those gals aren't dead, God forbid. I think it's a path worth looking into.

By acooolcat (211.78.0.219 - 211.78.0.219) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 12:42 am:

Maredda, The are only 5 only feme releases on Lupine - that I know of;
The Corvels - He's So Fine - an answer song to the Falcons hit of 1959.
Ella Reed - Sweet Man.
Primmettes - Tears Of Sorrow - I guess this was recrded around 1961 but don't think it was released until c. 1964, once the Supremes had made a name for themselves.
Tina Marvel - Promises You Made Me.
Betty Lavett - Witchcraft In The Air.
I'm sure Joe Hunter did Motown's arragement of "Quicksand" and he later had a hand in "Deep Freeze" recorded by The Adorables for Golden World, which is very similar. I don't think I've heard the LuPine song you're refering to, but Detroit's music scene was pretty incestuous.
I've had a big enough job tracking and interviewing people who had records released, so I've not even tried to contact those who didn't! I've spoken to some group members who can't tell me the names of the others in their group. Unfortunately it's virtually impossible to document every single 45, artist or group in Detroit from the 60s - there was just so much going on.

By John Lester (213.122.193.68 - 213.122.193.68) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 05:09 am:

The Primettes apparently recorded "Tears Of Sorrow" in 1960. Diana Ross takes lead. The flip "Pretty Baby" has Mary Wilson on lead. I have the Lupine 45 but also a 78rpm pressing/acetate.

The Primettes signed their Motown contract on 15 January 1961 - the name change to the Supremes was thus also in 1961...prior to the release of the Tamla 45 "I Want A Guy" on 9 March 1961.

Diana Ross goes in print as saying that the first song the Primettes recorded at Motown was "After All" (it's on the Supremes box set) and that was in the Autumn (= Fall) of 1960 - this featured Barbara Martin and of course, dear Florence Ballard. Written documents give a detailed date of 1 October 1960 with "Who's Lovin' You" and "Play A Sad Song" on 6 October and "I Want A Guy" on 15 December 1960. All Diane/Diana leads.

Barbara Martin is in touch with Mary Wilson these days...she has a family that she devotes her energies to.

By david, glasgow, scotland (217.32.134.30 - 217.32.134.30) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 08:46 am:

nice one john!

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 11:14 am:

I have a small Primmetes clip plugging them at The Graystone Ballromm which I'll dig out and scan/post to David. I can't recall the date off-hand.
The ex-Primette I sploke to is also called Barbara (but not Barbara Martin) and was married to arranger Mike Terry in the 1960s. We spoke about Mary Wilson's book and she said the "Tears Of Sorrow" account in there isn't too accurate, and she seems to have a decent memory.
I had their LuPine 45 too, but sold it a few years ago. I think it is one of the later issues because of the address on the label. Do you have many Lupine 45s John? Please compare it to the first/early issues and let me know what you think.
Cheers, Graham

By david, glasgow, scotland (217.32.153.247 - 217.32.153.247) on Friday, November 02, 2001 - 12:02 pm:

graham,look forward to seeing the scan.

thanks david

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Saturday, November 03, 2001 - 05:59 am:

The Primettes clip is from mid-Feb 1960; Jackie Wilson was also on the bill.

By John Lester (213.1.131.222 - 213.1.131.222) on Saturday, November 03, 2001 - 09:06 am:

I only have the Supremes 45 on Lupine now....if I had any others, Rixy would have taken them by now....Andy tells me he's my 45 caretaker so when I want to hear my 45's on the Masqueraders and that Angelina song on Stewart Ames, I have to make an appointment!

Ha ha ha ha!

By Andy Rix (195.93.34.171 - 195.93.34.171) on Saturday, November 03, 2001 - 11:43 am:

John didn't even realise he had them until it was time for them to leave home :-)

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58 - 61.222.95.58) on Friday, March 29, 2002 - 11:56 am:

How many 45s were released on Contour and Flick? Both labels also belonged to Robert West.
Graham

By Keith Hughes (195.92.67.74 - 195.92.67.74) on Tuesday, July 02, 2002 - 10:34 pm:

8 releases on Contour (inc the Majestics, later the Monitors on Soul/VIP), 10 on Flick ... and don't forget Bumble Bee (5 releases) and Kudo (8 releases inc Marv Johnson and Briant (yes, that's right, Briant) Holland).

Very good discography by Graham Anthony in Detroit City Limits #9, many years ago - where are you Graham ??

Can supply more info if you really wanna know ...

Keith

By matt (208.130.56.167 - 208.130.56.167) on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 01:00 am:

what about later lupine and flick releases from las vegas? i'm thinking of the singing principal on flick, and joe s. maxey on lupine. are there others? i assume the label owner just moved from detroit to vegas at some point...any info?

matt

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 08:17 am:

Hi Keith, I've never been able to figure out who exactly The Majestics were. I think the line-up changed a lot... from 45 to 45?
Who actually made it to The Monitors from those early Majestics recordings on Chex and Contour?
Graham

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58 - 61.222.95.58) on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 10:06 am:

Keith, do you know if there was a Flick # 004?
I have 4 releases listed on Bumble Bee, but just one on Silhouette.
Matt - I have 4 Lupine 45s listed with the Las Vegas address: numbers 711, 712, 810 and 0001 - which is "Sliced Tomatoes" by the Just Brothers.
Graham

By Keith Hughes (195.92.67.74 - 195.92.67.74) on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 10:22 am:

Hi Graham

Hmm, Roger Green (YTF Issue 15) says:

Majestics on Contour (501): Johnny Mitchell, Breeze Hatcher, Alvin English & Cyril Clark.

Majestics on Chex (1000/1004/1006/1009): Johnny Mitchell, Thomas Mealy, Maurice Fagan, Pedro Mancha, Warren Harris.

Fagan and Harris made it through to the Monitors.

BUT ... Ferlingere's Discography of Vocal groups thinks the Contour 501 release featured William Gordon on lead tenor, and ... Joe Billinglea, later of the Contours.

I bet there are more stories out there ...

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 08:21 pm:

From left to right
Cyril Clark, Arthur Walton and James 'Pete' Crawford.

The latter two are also pictured in Otis William's book with the rest of the El Domingos (third and second from left in that pic).

Cyril showed me a copy of the Contour 45. Pretty beat up it was! He confirmed that was the only Majestics side he was on.

Keith what is YTF Issue 15?

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 08:27 pm:

I last spoke to Graham Anthony four or five years ago.

He did a great job with his fanzine Detroit City Limits.

Someone commented that he got fed up with a few things associated with the scene.

By Keith Hughes (195.92.67.74 - 195.92.67.74) on Thursday, July 04, 2002 - 05:00 pm:

David

What a wonderful picture! Thank you!

I have Contour-004 (Fabulous Playboys, later the Falcons Mark 2) and Contour-C504 (Pauline Cooper) (can scan if anyone wants to see though I'm not sure how you attach a pic in this forum) but not the Majestics ... wish I did!

YTF - Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow, a Motown magazine produced by Mick Wilding in the 1990s. Now sadly as defunct as Detroit City Limits. Tell Graham hi if you ever hear from him again.

Best

Keith

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Thursday, July 04, 2002 - 05:12 pm:

Well Keith, I'm glad to say that our dear friend Sis, who is a resident in our favourite city, sent us several spectacular images this morning.

Amongst them were The Majestics.

From left to right Warren Harris, Pedro Mancha, Tommy Mealy, Maurice Fagan

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Thursday, July 04, 2002 - 05:18 pm:

and again from left to right
Tommy Mealy, Johnny Mitchell, Pedro Mancha, Maurice Fagan

By Keith Hughes (195.92.67.74 - 195.92.67.74) on Thursday, July 04, 2002 - 09:52 pm:

Magnificent - what great quality repro too!

She's a wonderful one, your friend Sis, please tell her from me.

Interesting historically too - suggests that they carried on without Mitchell, before recruiting Richard Street and Sandra Fagan. I wonder what the line-up was when they recorded those early tracks for Motown - Cry, Guilty, Anything etc ...

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Friday, July 05, 2002 - 04:36 am:

Sis mentioned that these pics are from an LP cover that Cyril has - does anyone know which LP this is?
Graham

By David Flynn (213.122.200.57 - 213.122.200.57) on Friday, July 05, 2002 - 02:00 pm:

...and of course Thomas Mealy later recorded as "Tommy Neal" for Pameline, Palmer and Vault...you know the tune!?! ;-)

Flynny

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, July 05, 2002 - 02:13 pm:

"Hey ya'll - listen to me
I really got somethin' that I want you to see...."

Still a killer record today!

By John Lester (213.122.201.55 - 213.122.201.55) on Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 06:44 am:

Flynn

I bought the album in New Orleans in the 80's and let my best Motown mate who has since passed, have it. It was a re-issue, custom made. So I know it exists.....I might have even bought a copy for Roger Green....Keith, did Roger copy it for that YTF article?

By keith hughes (195.92.67.74 - 195.92.67.74) on Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 06:11 pm:

No, he didn't use it, but I think he had/has the album - was it on Relic, "The Chex Golden Groups"? - he taped me the Majestics cuts from that album.

By Lynn Bruce (64.233.239.172 - 64.233.239.172) on Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 07:07 pm:

I just got around to reading this thread.Man, you people should be hired immediatly by Scotland Yard,they are amatures compared to y'all.Let me throw something in to the pot.I backed up a lady singer called Barbra Adams in 1964,her husband would come in to the club the last couple of sets a lot of nights and pull out his baritone sax and jam with us.His name was Mike.The name Terry rings a bell but I 'm not sure.He was one of the real funk brothers as I see his picture on some of the session pictures.The last time I saw him he was working for Northwest airlines in about 1996 as a new employe.It was quite a suprise as my day job was the same company.I would go around telling everyoneDO YOU KNOW THAT THAT GUY PLAYED ON JUST ABOUT ALL THE HITS THAT CAME OUT OF MOTOWN.The younger kids could give a shit.I've worked with a lot of famous people but I still want to prostrate myself around the Motown Cats.
I don't know if this will help you down a different road as far as your research,if anything pops up in my mind in the future,I'll get back to you

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 07:55 pm:

Hi Lynn
If you look in the archives thru 'search forum' you will find many entries for Mike Terry.

This recent posting by myself is worth repeating:-

Mike(Terry) gave me a copy of a list which is being used as the backbone for a book (author unknown) on "Top Saxophone Breaks" (or words to that effect).

This is Mike's contribution to that story:-

Motown Corporation :-
Baby Love
Quicksand
Where Did Our Love Go
Back In My Arms Again
I Can't Help Myself
I Hear A Symphony
It's The Same Old Song
Something About You
Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart
This Old Heart Of Mine

Other:-
The Horse
Just Like Romeo And Juliet

Twelve entries is quite astonishing.

By Keith Hughes (195.92.67.74 - 195.92.67.74) on Saturday, July 06, 2002 - 08:24 pm:

And what can you say about his astonishing contribution to "When the lovelight start shining thru' his eyes"??

By Ian W (213.122.149.141 - 213.122.149.141) on Sunday, July 07, 2002 - 08:47 pm:

Lynn, that's a great story! What would we give to a) play like you guys and b) have played alongside THE Mike Terry! Wow!