By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 07:44 pm:

This has nothing to do with R&B, other than the fact that the Beatles were heavily influenced by the music, so I suppose this is appropriate for the forum.

We ( The Sunliners ) were playing at the Club Cliche. It was early in the year 1964, around February I believe. One night at the club we were approached by three guys who said they represented the law firm Chosid, Dressner and Crane. They told us they had been watching us for some time and would like to arrange a meeting with us and our manager, Bob Brower.

At this time there was some sort of national movement going on known as Stamp Out The Beatles. We as musicians thought it was rather silly and we liked and respected what the Beatles were doing, even at this early date. They had just recently ( January ) broken into the American music scene. Actually we were grateful for them because they were opening up new avenues for bands in a business that had been dominated by by what was once referred to as The Bobby Singers..ie: Bobby Reidell, Bobby Darren
Bobby Curtola etc.In fact Bill Williams, the owner of the Cliche would tell us that these guys would be good for our business.

So back to the story....we meet with these attorneys and they inform us that they are the people behind the Stamp Out The Beatles movement.They would like us , because of our popularity, to record a song to support this movement and ultimately get into some sort of battle of the bands situation with the Beatles.
I have to admit it got our attention, as bizarre as the whole thing seemed.

Over the next couple of weeks negotiations took place and we would sign a one record deal with Sceptor records out of New York. We had a stipulation though. We would not to the deal under the Sunliner name. We had our own reputation to think about. So we signed the contract under the name The Hi-Riders.

Now we had to write a song and fast. Everyone was hot to get this out. We wrote the song as a group called, appropriately, Stamp Out The Beatles. The song was ghastly. A parody of the Beatle songs to date with the idea that we were going to kick their asses so to speak.
We went into United to record it. Our biggest mistake is we tried to do it without a producer. I thnk we spent the better part of a week in the studio fighting with each other on the production. Meanwhile Sceptor is callng every few hours and Brower and the lawyers are on us to get it done.

The song gets finished and it appears everyone is happy with the outcome except the band. We all knew it was terrible. From here things get fuzzy for me. The record is released, but nothing happens. I think by this time the Beatles had become THE BEATLES and The Sunliners were moving on to become Rare Earth. Fred reminded me that while the record thing was being promoted, Chosid, Dressner and Crane were getting legal injunctions on behalf of Brian Epstien to cease and desist. But like I said...nothing came of it anyway. And when it was all over I would learn the kicker.I don't remember where I heard this or who I learned it from, but Brian Epstien was in on this with Chosid, Dressner and Crane. The thinking being, that the Beatles just might be a flash in the pan so it wouldn't hurt to fan the flames of controversey a bit. Good promotion.

Actually at that time Fred had already planned to leave the group at Easter. I was having a hard time dealing with this and was hoping anything might happen over all of this just to keep Fred from leaving. He and my brother and I had started this thing so many years before and had been through so much together, starting as a young band playing USO shows where our up tempo songs were polkas, culmnating the year before when we played Yankee Stadium, where Fred and I would look at one another with the un-spoken words.." How in the hell did we get here?? " So Fred was leaving...my friend...my brother...and if we had to Stamp Out The Beatles to prevent this, I was all for it.

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 08:18 pm:

Ralph

As it's a story about the Sunliners in the sixties I think it has every justification to be told here - especially by your good self!

That's quite amazing, and "incredible" enough to be totally believable. It reminded me of the story of Colonel Tom Parker, who marketed "We Love Elvis" AND "We Hate Elvis" badges.

By cl (204.38.7.43 - 204.38.7.43) on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 08:50 pm:

I feel so priveleged to read your knowledge and history Mr. T.; however I hope you are not lumping Bobby Darren in with the light weight Bobby's as he was quite a dynamic singer when he wanted to be!

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 09:49 pm:

wouldn't it be a laugh if paul mccartney came on to give us his thoughts.

ralph yo' the man!

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 12:07 am:

OK CL...you got me...all due respects to the late and talented Bobby Darren....how about Bobby Vee then?

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 12:08 am:

David,
I'm sure Paul McCartney would get a kick out of this place.

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 12:18 am:

ralph
paul mccartney would. time will tell on his appearance but don't rule it out.

he had a deep affection for the motown sound as did all the beatles.

we owe them.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 12:45 am:

Ralph

Talking of Bobby Darin (BTW, it was JAMES Darren - yet another towering teen talent of the early 60s!), there's a great piece in Jerry Wexler's autobiography where he recalls hearing from afar some heavy Gospel piano playing, and was staggered to discover it was Bobby Darin sitting at the piano. Till then he'd never realised what a talent Atco actually had on their books.

It's a shame he turned all "Las Vegas" - probably a result of Capitol Records signing him as "Frank Sinatra's replacement" when Frankie set up his own Reprise label. Rather a hard act to follow, I guess.

By recordboyusa (208.61.5.193 - 208.61.5.193) on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 04:31 am:

Bobby Darin had a great record on Motown called "Melodie". He was a guy who went through very diverse musical periods, some really good, others not so inspiring. I recall how the death of Robert Kennedy had such an impact on him. He decided he wanted to make music with a message. He also knew he wasn't in great health, and lived every moment to its fullest. I would have liked to have been married to Sandra Dee!

Great story about the Sunliners. There was a group here in Miami called "Sonny Bloch's Elephants" that recorded a song called "The Beetle Stomp" around the same time -- about stomping the Beatles (although spelled "Beetles" on the record). Bloch's early group, the Coralairs, did the original version of the Nat King Cole Christmas song, "Buon Natale".

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com

By cl (205.188.193.152 - 205.188.193.152) on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 05:54 am:

Hey Mr. Terrana, Bobby Vee was another lightweight in my opinion. BUt of course it is just my opinion.

Regarding Darren somone posted on this thread that it was too bad he went " vegas" of course I disagree categoricaally as that was again imo where his forte was.

In fact I believe that he was returning to that style when he died.

THe difference I think that is obvious is that Darren could really sing and he had some pretty good arrangers too (billy may)

Again I reiterate how cool it is to be able to read Mr. Terrana's experince knowledge and history....wow!!!!

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 10:01 am:

Hi cl

I was the one who made the comment about Bobby Darin "going Vegas" and I stand by it, while totally respecting your right to disagree.

What I meant was success in one particular field does not necessarily prove it is the best use of the artist's talent. In the same way, an artist's biggest hit ever may not be their "best" record ever - just the most commercial at that time.

By the count (64.152.153.154 - 64.152.153.154) on Saturday, April 27, 2002 - 11:49 pm:

Ralph,your a million dollars worth of talent also to this site.The Sunliners was one of our favorite groups durring those wonderful years of ROCK AND ROLL,our favorite meaning the 5ive Invictas,which i was the drummer 1958--1965.I see GIL AT jAMIES ALL THE TIME.I HAVE A CHRISTMAS doo-wop party at my house every year and when Gil is in town, he has come to them,i'll have to post a few of the pictures of Gil here at my house enjoying the DOO-WOP party. I sure do miss Rod Cox,it's been over 30 years since i've seen him.Anyhow, everyone has their own opinon and is entitled to it as far as the BEATLES go.Mine is, you could go into a record store and see a Beatle tape(BEFORE CD's)for $1.00 on sale,but right next to it you could buy a blank tape for $2.00,if they would of kept their shut they could of doubled their money.Thats just my opinon.Love ya RALPH. Steve The Count Gronas.

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 05:12 am:

Steve,
Thanks for all the love pal. The next time you see Gil, smack him for me. He owes me a phone call. Also give my best to Jamie when you see him.
Ralph

By acooolcat (211.78.28.79 - 211.78.28.79) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 08:10 pm:

Hi Ralph, Great story. Was this Bill Williams (at Club Cliche) the same guy as the radio DJ Bill Williams?
Best wishes, Graham

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 09:14 pm:

No Graham. Different Bill Williams. Bill and his wife Ruby owned the cliche.They were great to work for. They used to refer to the band as " the stud farm ". Wonder what that was all about?

By john lester (213.122.202.44 - 213.122.202.44) on Sunday, April 28, 2002 - 09:30 pm:

I don't know either Ralph...but I reckon I could guess and I would not be so wildy out!

Maybe we should ask Rosie for HER opinion!!

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58 - 61.222.95.58) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 03:48 am:

Ralph - are you really sure about not wanting a time machine?
Graham

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 04:01 am:

Well I could see the advantages Graham.