By phillysoulman (152.163.195.213 - 152.163.195.213) on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 02:45 am:

I JUST SPOKE TO BABITT AND HE WAS IN HAWAII ON HIS WAY BACK HOME. HE LIVES IN NASHVILLE BUT MISSES THE DETROIT SCENE THE WAY IT WAS BACK IN THE DAY. WHO WOULD NOT!!! HE SAID THAT THE FUNK BROTHERS MOVIE IS GREAT AND THAT IT WIL BE OUT VERY SOON. I WILL SPEAK WITH HIM IN DEPTH TOMORROW AND GET HIM TO GO ON THE FORUM.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 02:53 am:

Bobby,Handle it my man. Babbit would be great here.

By phillysoulman (205.188.198.151 - 205.188.198.151) on Wednesday, January 30, 2002 - 07:38 pm:

YO BABBITT, ARE YA BACK YET??? GET ON AND CHAT WITH US. WE NEED YOUR INPUT AND GREAT STORIES!!!!!!!

BOBBY ELI

By BOB BABBITT (205.188.198.21 - 205.188.198.21) on Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 09:31 pm:

WHAT�S UP MO-FU�S......................JUST A QUICK NOTE (NO PUN INTENDED)
THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT I COULD TALK ABOUT AS FAR AS TERA SHIRMA STUDIO IS CONCERNED, BUT THE ONE THING THAT HAPPENED THERE THAT I WILL NEVER FORGET IS WHEN WE WERE RECORDING FOR HOLLAND &DOZIER.......
THEY HAD JUST LEFT MOTOWN BUT I DON�T THINK THEY WERE LEGALLY OUT OF THEIR CONTRACT WITH THEM.............THEY HAD OTHER PRODUCERS AND WRITERS DOING THE SESSIONS............WE WERE DOING TWO SESSIONS ONE DAY AND IN BETWEEN SESSIONS WE WENT OUT BACK OF THE STUDIO WERE THERE WAS A PARKING LOT...........................
DON�T ASK ME WHY BUT I TOOK THE STUDIO BROOM WITH ME OUT THE BACK DOOR.........
AT THAT TIME THE DETROIT STUDIOS AND MUSICIANS WERE GETTING UNKNOWN PHONE CALLS THREATENING US NOT TO WORK FOR HOLLAND & DOZIER..........NOW WHEN WE WENT OUT BACK OF THE STUDIO THERE WAS A MAFIA LOOKING CHARACTER STANDING BY HIS CAR IN THE PARKING LOT.............I GUESS I WAS KNOWN FOR DOING DARING (CRAZY) THINGS SO I PUT THE BROOM ON MY SHOULDER AND KIND OF STARTED TO CREEP TOWARD HIS CAR........WHEN I GOT TO THE CAR I THOUGHT I SAW A GUN AND A HAND GRENADE ON THE FRONT SEAT OF THE CAR........F--K ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I TOOK THE BROOM AND STARTED SWEEPING THE PARKING LOT AS I BACK PEDDLED TO THE STUDIO BACK DOOR...........(ALRIGHT, YEAH I WAS DOING DRUGS AT THAT TIME.......
BUT NEVER NO COCAINE..... AND NEVER WHILE I WAS RECORDING, BUT I KNOW WHAT I SAW).......................NOW THE STUDIO BACK DOOR LED TO A HALLWAY THAT LED TO A DOOR THAT LED INTO THE STUDIO..........AND GUESS WHO SAT RIGHT NEXT TO THAT STUDIO DOOR??? YEP.......THE BABBITT HERE....
F--K ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL DURING THAT SESSION ALL I COULD THINK ABOUT WAS THAT HAND GRENADE ROLLING DOWN THE HALLWAY HEADED FOR THE STUDIO DOOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ANYTIME I THINK ABOUT OR SOMEONE MENTIONS TERA SHIRMA THAT IS THE FIRST THING THAT COMES TO MY MIND............................................................................................
WELL MO-FU�S, THAT�S ALL FOR NOW.......WATCH FOR FUNK BROTHERS FILM.....SOON!!!
STILL ROCKIN�
BOB BABBITT

COPYRIGHT JAMBITT MUSIC ASCAP

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, February 02, 2002 - 10:12 pm:

Babbit!!! You surfaced.I just got off the phone with Bobby Eli. We were wondering where you were. Funny story. I remember those early sessions with HDH. It was almost like something out of James Bond. I remember they would run in the back door, go up the stairs to my office. We would sit in there and talk for a while tell we felt it was ok to record. I was always getting hit on by these hired private cops to let them in the building, but they never got in. Glad I didn't know at the time about any hand grenades.
Keep coming back Bob. It's great hearing from you.
Ralph

By Bebopman (66.2.148.201 - 66.2.148.201) on Sunday, February 03, 2002 - 01:54 am:

Hey guys, I love this site. I grew up in Detroit and was on the "fringes" of music business. Never that good and never the breaks....anyway, I was wondering if Bob Babbitt was on any sessions with the Dramatics and/or the Precisions? What were those recording sessions like. I knew a few of those guys in both groups. I was very close to Arthur, in fact was a member of the Precisions while in high school at Highland Park. Also, played gigs with Emmaual, Zack Slater and Curtis Sharpe. Did you play in any recording sessions with them?.

By phillysoulman (205.188.192.154 - 205.188.192.154) on Sunday, February 03, 2002 - 04:04 am:

YO BABBITT, WELL PUT MU-FU!!!!! I CAN JUST SEE THE S**T NOW. THE MOB GUY AND ALL. GOOD THING YOU DIDNT GET BLOWN UP OTHERWISE YOU COULDNT HAVE DONE ALL THOSE GREAT PHILLY SESSIONS. LOOKING FORWARD TO DOING THE DETROIT PHILLY THING AGAIN'
THIS TIME WE'LL DO IT AT TERA SHIRMA!!!!!

By phillysoulman (64.12.106.51 - 64.12.106.51) on Sunday, February 03, 2002 - 05:59 pm:

MORE STORIES !!! MORE STORIES!!!!

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Sunday, February 03, 2002 - 08:32 pm:

thanks for joining in bob babbitt.

tellin' it like it was is food and drink to these forum phenoms.

By John Lester (213.122.197.176 - 213.122.197.176) on Sunday, February 03, 2002 - 08:52 pm:

Hey Bob...it's great to see you here and thanks to Ralph and Bobby for the "persuasion".

We may be mostly Brits but we are all "Americans" at heart.

Tell us more...

Hey, whats this "Run Like A Rabbit" that Motown announced on you.

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 05:46 pm:

Hi Bob Babbit - great to have your stories. We hope there are more and more to come. Is is true you were the last person to buy a chocolate bar from that vending machine near the control room at Mowtown, Detroit?? If so, your cahange is still waitinf gor you! OK, my stories are not so good.............

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 05:48 pm:

God - I spelt Motown wrong - aaaaaagh!

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, February 04, 2002 - 06:46 pm:

Thats OK Carl,
Most every one spells Tera Shirma wrong.
You're among friends here

By BOB BABBITT (205.188.192.156 - 205.188.192.156) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 05:46 am:

JOHN LESTER....................�RUNNING LIKE A RABBIT� WAS AN INSTRUMENTAL THAT I HAD RECORDED AT MOTOWN BEFORE I MOVED TO THE EAST COAST (1971)
MOTOWN NEVER RELEASED THAT SONG OR ANY OF THE RECORDINGS THAT I HAD DONE....IT WAS LIKE THEY WOULD LET YOU GO IN AND RECORD SOMETHING AS AN ARTIST OR AS A PRODUCER BUT NEVER RELEASED ANYTHING........................IT SEEMS LIKE THEY JUST WANTED TO PACIFY YOU AND MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD RECORDING YOUR OWN MUSIC BUT REALLY WANTED YOU TO BE THERE TO PLAY FOR ALL OF THE OTHER ARTIST...........................WHERE DID YOU SEE AN ANNOUNCEMENT ON THE �RUNNING FOR A RABBIT� RECORD??????
BOB BABBITT

By BOB BABBITT (205.188.192.156 - 205.188.192.156) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 05:49 am:

BEBOPMAN............DRAMATICS.............I DID PLAY ON SOME OF THEIR EARLY SESSIONS BUT NOT ON THE BIG HIT�S.....I KNOW ANDREW SMITH PLAYED DRUMS AND I THINK MICHAEL HENDERSON PLAYED BASS......................................
PRECISIONS........................I PLAYED ON SEVERAL OF THEIR RECORDS BUT I ONLY REMEMBER ONE OF THE TITLES............I THINK �BLESS YOU� WAS THE TITLE AND IT WAS BIG ON THE R&B CHARTS BUT NOT TO BIG ON THE POP CHARTS........IT WAS RECORDED AT TERA SHIRMA STUDIO
( I THINK THE ORIGINAL STUDIO) AND MIKE TERRY WAS THE ARRANGER ON THAT RECORD AND PROBABLY ON ALL OF THEIR SONGS.......I REMEMBER THAT THERE WERE 3 PRODUCERS...............
MIKE VALVANO........AND I THINK THE OTHER NAMES WERE CHARLEY AND MARTY? I DON'T REMEMBER THE LAST NAMES........I WOULD SURE LOVE TO HAVE COPIES OF THEIR RECORDS !!!
IF YOU CAN HELP ME WITH THAT PLEASE LET ME KNOW..............................
BOB BABBITT

By phillysoulman (152.163.204.208 - 152.163.204.208) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:01 am:

Yo Babbitt, what up mf*********k*r!!!!
Keep the stories coming MoFo.. I can picture your voice telling that S**t as I am reading it.
More of that cloak and dagger s**t mofo....
replacing parts... all that kinda s**t

By BOB BABBITT (64.12.107.31 - 64.12.107.31) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:28 am:

HEY MO-FU�S......THE BABBITT HERE............ YOUR GETTING AWAY FROM INVICTUS MUSICIANS.................
MAIN PLAYERS................

KEYBOARDS......JOHNNY GRIFFTH......RUDY ROBINSON
GUITARS.............EDDIE WILLIS........DENNIS COFFEY......RAY MONETTE
BASS................... .MYSELF.............AND IF I WASN�T THERE I THINK THEY USED TONY NEWTON
DRUMS................ URIEL JONES............ANDREW SMITH..........RICHARD �PISTOL� ALLEN
TAMBOURINE & VIBES........JACK ASHFORD

INVICTUS, HOT WAX WERE THE LABELS HOLLAND & DOZIER HAD AND ONE OF THE GROUPS THAT WE RECORDED HIT�S ON WAS CALLED THE �FLAMING EMBERS�....... (� MIND, BODY, AND SOUL�....�WESTBOUND # 9�)....WHEN THEY RELEASED THE ALBUM ON THIS GROUP THEY GAVE CREDITS TO THE BAND MEMBERS WHEN IN FACT THE ONLY GUY ON THE RECORDS WAS THE LEAD SINGER.....F--K ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND THE PARLIMENT-FUNKADELIC............THE FIRST P-FUNK ALBUM ( I THINK THE LABEL WAS WESTBOUND?) THEY HAD ANDREW SMITH ON DRUMS, RAY MONETTE ON GUITAR ,AND MYSELF ON BASS.............GUESS WHAT?????????? THEY GAVE CREDITS TO THE LIVE ROAD BAND...............
THAT ALBUM ACTUALLY PUT P-FUNK ON THE MAP.......F--K ME AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BOB BABBITT.......I AM GOING TO POST THIS ON INVICTUS MUSICIANS AND ON BOB BABBITT.............

By John Lester (213.1.136.64 - 213.1.136.64) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 08:36 am:

Bob

"Running Like a Rabbit" was one of those titles that I discovered by reading the music press in the early 70's...it was supposed to be a missing catalogue number on the Soul label..but I never found out which one. I suppose it is possible to check whether label copies were sent away for production...hmmm....as you know Motown did the same to you as they did with James Jamerson on "Fever In The Funk House" (eventually issued on a Motown Year by Year CD album). Mind you, Popcorn Wylie did get a release on "Funky Rubber Band"..and that one even got issued in the UK!!

Now I was neve sure of the Invictus, Hot Wax and Music Merchant musicians except for one...a very young Ray Parker..but you didn't mention him in your list, so I am a bit confused now....and Ray Monette - I assume this is our Ralph's buddy...the Rare Earth man! Ralph - get those grey cells working!

Whilst you were doing Invictus material....can I ask

1. Were these all recorded at Tera Shirma
2. Did you work on a whole load of material for or with Brenda Holloway?
3. Did you work on the instrumental band tracks only so that you would never be quite sure about who the lead vocalist was except by hearsay or by seeing the song in the Billboard chars?
4. Did you play the thumping bass on Band of Gold and Give Me Just A Little More Time....and can you tell me who you understood to have written those 2 songs?
5. Ronald Dunbar and Edith Wayne...can you tell me how they fit into that Invictus thing? What did they contribute?

I want you to know that I love that Invictus sound, I think you guys recaptured the heart of Detroit on those Tera Shirma sessions...Ralph - you're the tops! (but you knew that anyway)

That Funk Brothers film...when is it gonna be shown in Detroit...I think all of us here have got to make the effort to go there and meet up. That would be like.....a dream come true. What ya say, guys?

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 02:32 pm:

John,
Yes...Ray Monette was a popular and talented session guitarist before joining Rare Earth.I used him exclusively on the Stony and Meatloaf recordngs.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 02:54 pm:

Babbitt,
Regarding the " Bless You " sessions at Tera Shirma....The production trio was Mike Valvano...Cholly ( not Charlie...when he was born his parents were torn between naming him Charlie or Jolly ) Bossoline and Marty.....oh oh ...senior moment folks...I can't remember Marty's last name. It is Italian. Valvano is SUPPOSSED to be posting on the forum. He could clear this one up.

Also Bob...what ever became of the session stuff you and Andrew did with Jeff Beck at Motown?

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:05 pm:

Ralph,

The Precisions - most of their stuff was
produced by Mike Valvano, Cholly Bassoline and
Marty Coleman. Marty was in The Valadiers,
the earliest white group on Motown - they did the
original version of "Greetings, This Is Uncle
Sam" which you might remember from the remake
by The Monitors in '66. He did a fair amount of
writing but never anything hugely successful
- at least nothing I can think of at this minute.

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:16 pm:

Hi Bob,

Welcome to the club - thanks for your input.

Your comments about the Flaming Ember stuff was
verrry interesting - I love their Hot Wax stuff
and always wondered how they'd improved so much
since their Ric Tic days - I was soo disappointed
when I finally heard the pre-Hot Wax records.
I should have suspected they didn't actually play
on their records.

As for the first Funkadelic album - that's a real
revelation. I suppose when yoiu do a l;ot of sessions you get used to other people being credited for your work but that album is so
legendary it's about time the truth about who
was responsible for that music was more widely
known. It's gonna devastate a few people when I
tell them - they think the original Funkadelic
band were little short of gods.

Tell me about the Act 1 album on Spring which
has been a long-time favourite of mine. Who
the hell sings on it. Raeford Gerald' supposed to be lead on some tracks ("Tom The Peeper") but there are other people involved and it's never been clear who's on it.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:36 pm:

Davie,
thanks for the info. That's right. Marty's last name was Coleman. Don't know why I thought he had an Italian surname.

By Rich (162.33.235.67 - 162.33.235.67) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 04:23 pm:

Hey Bob, if you're still around and don't mind sayin' did Tiki or Eddie Hazel play on any of the sessions with you or Ray for the Funkadelic album. I've also read that Earl Van Dyke & Ivy Hunter played on it as well. I'm curious how you guys learned the songs. I've been told that in the mid-to-late 60's GC would often tape the rehearsals of his live band and play them for the studio musicians. You mentioned playing on the Parliaments sessions at United Sounds for the Testify, Goodies, The Goose (and maybe Don't Be Sore at Me & I Can feel the Ice Melting as well). Do you happen recall who was playing with you on those.

RK

By BOB BABBITT (205.188.198.184 - 205.188.198.184) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 03:17 am:

HEY MO-FU'S...........JOHN.....RAY PARKER STARTED WORKING FOR HOLLAND AND DOZIER JUST BEFORE ANDREW SMITH AND I MOVED TO THE EAST COAST (JAN 1973)..
I DID DO A FEW SESSIONS WITH HIM AT H&D'S BUT MAYBE AFTER WE LEFT HE WORKED WITH THEM UNTIL THEY CLOSED UP SHOP AND MOVED TO L.A.????????
ALSO THAT MAY BE WHEN THEY STARTED USING SOME OF THE P-FUNK'S ON THEIR SESSIONS?? MOST OF THE SONGS WERE RECORDED AT RALPHS PLACE (TERA SHIRMA) OR WHEN THEY OPENED UP THEIR OWN PLACE CALLED TOWER STUDIO (AN OLD MOVIE THEATER)..NO
BRENDA HOLLAWAY RECORDINGS THAT I KNOW OF..IF THEY DID IT WAS PROBABLY WHEN THEY WERE STILL WITH MOTOWN??? ALL OF THEIR SESSIONS WERE WITHOUT THE VOCALIST...SOMETIMES THEY DID NOT EVEN HAVE A SONG,JUST SOME IDEAS AND THEY THEY WOULD PUT IT TOGETHER ON THE STUDIO FLOOR....
NORMAN WHITFIELD WORKED A LOT OF TIMES THE SAME WAY AT MOTOWN!!!!!!! I DID PLAY ON "BAND OF GOLD"(TERA SHIRMA) AND "GIMMIE JUST A LITTLE MORE TIME" (TOWER) ....I THINK RONNIE DUNBAR WAS THE CO-WRITER ON "BAND OF GOLD"..HE ALSO PRODUCED AND WORKED AT THE OFFICE OF H&D......
EDITH WAYNE I DID NOT KNOW...FUNK BROTHER FILM....THE PREMIER MAY BE MAR OR APRIL IN DETROIT...THE FUNK BRO'S WILL TOUR ENGLAND....
(7 OR 8) JOBS EARLY FALL!! RALPH...MOTOWN JEFF BECK SESSIONS...ANDREW SMITH DID NOT PLAY...JEFF HAD BROUGHT HIS DRUMMER AT THAT TIME, COZY POWELL.......THEY HAD STARTED RECORDING WITH JAMERSON BUT AT THAT TIME HE WAS NOT PLAYING UP TO PAR AND THEY CALLED ME IN....THE FIRST NIGHT IT WAS JEFF, COZY, AND MYSELF AND JEFF HAD A MONSTER GUITAR LINE HE WANTED ME TO DOUBLE WITH HIM!! DON'T ASK ME HOW BUT SOMEHOW I MADE IT........ONE THING I DO REMEMBER WAS THAT JEFF BROKE A STRING AND DID NOT HAVE ANY NEW STRINGS WITH HIM???? MAYBE JUST A OVERSITE?? THE OTHER SESSIONS THEY ADDED JOHNNY GRIFFITH ON PIANO, THE PRODUCER WAS MICKEY MOST WHO HAD PRODUCED SEVERAL BIG ARTIST....I DON'T KNOW IF JEFF LIKED HIS WORK BUT WHEN THE SESSIONS WERE OVER HE ASKED ME TO JOIN HIS BAND AND COME TO ENGLAND TO RECORD WITH HIM AND TO ALSO BE INVOLVED IN THE PRODUCTION.
WELL...GUESS WHAT???? AT THAT TIME I WAS SIGNED WITH MOTOWN AS AN ARTIST WITH A SELF CONTAINED GROUP CALLED "SCORPION"....AND WAS PRODUCING SOME THINGS AT THAT TIME.....WHEN YOU SIGNED A CONTRACT WITH MOTOWN YOU SIGNED YOUR LIFE AWAY!! THEY WOULD ALSO SIGN YOU AS A PRODUCER AND WRITER AT THE SAME TIME...LOCK YOU F----N' UP!!!!! SO WHEN I WENT TO TELL THEM ABOUT JEFFS OFFER
BUT.....NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!THE F------'S SAID...YOU CANT DO THAT....YOUR SIGNED WITH MOTOWN.....WE CAN DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT AT F-----'MOTOWN FOR YOU!!!! THAT WAS THE #1 REASON I HEADED FOR THE EAST COAST INSTEAD OF CALIFORNIA...I DONT KNOW TO THIS DAY WHAT HAPPENED TO THE JEFF BECK SESSIONS???????
DAVE G...OUTSIDE OF THAT FIRST P-FUNK ALBUM THEY DID PLAY ON THE REST OF THEIR PRODUCT AS FAR AS I KNOW...AND THEY ARE GREAT PLAYERS!!!!!
ACT 1 ALBUM...RECORDED IN NEW YORK ON SPRING RECORDS........ANDREW SMITH DID SEVERAL OF THE ARRANGMENTS...ANDREW, MYSELF AND A SINGER SONGWRITER FROM DETROIT, PERRY BOYD, WROTE SEVERAL OF THE SONGS AND PERRY WAS THE MAIN LEAD SINGER ON THE RECORD...I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A COPY!!!! CARL......THE CANDY MACHINE...I GOT THE LAST CANDY BAR EVERYTIME BECAUSE IF I WANTED CANDY AND THERE WAS NONE I THREATNED THEM WITH A BODY SLAM, HEAD BUTT, BEAR HUG OR THE DREADED PILE DRIVER....GUESS WHAT??? THE FEAR OF KNOWING THIS KEPT THE CANDY MACHINE FULL FOR ME!!!!!!!!!!!
RICH...THE RECORDS "TESTIFY" AND ALL YOUR GOODIES ARE GONE" WERE NOT P-FUNK RECORDS...THEY ARE PARLIMENT RECORDS..IT WAS A COMBINATION OF THE SAME FUNK BRO'S WHO PLAYED ON THESE RECORDS..
I THINK DENNIS COFFEY PLAYED AND HE MAY BE ABLE TO HELP YOU??? NOT SURE ABOUT "GOOSE" OR THE OTHER TITLES YOU MENTIONED...
WELL MO-FU'S THATS ALL FOR NOW
BOB BABBITT

By BOB BABBITT (205.188.198.184 - 205.188.198.184) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 03:43 am:

HEY MO-FU'S .....SOMEONE ASKED ABOUT A RECORD
"90 DAYS IN THE COUNTY JAIL" BY DANNY WOODS...
I PRODUCED THE RECORD AT TERA SHIRMA
(ORIGINAL STUDIO).....DANNY LATER BECAME ONE OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD.........
THE NAME ROBERT KREINAR IS MY LEGAL NAME.........
DON'T ASK ME HOW I GOT STUCK WITH BABBITT?????
LATER MO-FU'S

By phillysoulman (152.163.195.201 - 152.163.195.201) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 07:52 am:

Yo Babbitt,

Great f***kn s**t m*****f***kr!!!!!
You got me beat in my story telling. We could write f**in encyclopedia. Check out my Gil Askey entry down on the forum!!!!!
Eli

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.122.60.81 - 213.122.60.81) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 09:06 am:

bob

the h/d/h studio was at grand river and meyers as you know.

it was formerly the 'town theater'.

did h/d/h definitely change the name to 'tower'?.

also can you describe this building and it's studio(s) please?

By John Lester (213.1.128.47 - 213.1.128.47) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 09:49 pm:

This site is too much for me today...

I need a lay down...what with Bob Babbitt and Mike Terry.....

I am gonna play My Electric Indian album

By Poly Esther (64.12.101.173 - 64.12.101.173) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 10:31 pm:

As a novice bass player of sorts and somewhat of a "historian" I must say that you are one of my all time idols.My friends and I were wondering if that was you on Tears of a clown? I said that it was , and they said that it was Jamerson. Who is right?

By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 07:49 am:

Dear Poly, I thought you had two 'l's!

From my humble knowledge, I think it was Mr Babbit on 'Tears'. Could be wrong, but they do not sound like flat wound strings! (he he) Bob Babbit, what strings did you use or is that a really naff question??

By phillysoulman (64.12.107.42 - 64.12.107.42) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 07:59 am:

Hey Babbitt,

I remember you telling me some time ago, correct me if i'm wrong but the reason you got the name Babbitt was due to a nephew or some small child in your family who couldn't enunciate the name Robert and it came out sounding like Babbitt and somehow it stuck!!We wouldn't have it any other way. Babbitt sounds like a bass players' moniker.
So glad it stuck m****f****k**r!!!!!!!!!

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 05:42 pm:

Hi Bob,

Thanks for all the info.

I'll keep an eye out for a copy of the Act 1
album - I'll let you know when I find one.

Re Jeff Beck - I heard that the main reason nothing came of it was that Motown and Mickie
Most couldn't agree on publishing.

Scorpion - I never knew that Motown had signed the band. I've heard of an album by Scorpion
on Tower but I've yet to find a copy.

"Ninety Days In The County Jail" - great record,
believe it or not it was played at this Glasgow
soul club two weeks ago - it had quite a few people up dancing.

By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 06:09 pm:

FWIW Most and Beck couldn't agree on anything and were hardly speaking to each other at the sessions I engineered.

It was pretty obvious to me that these sessions would never have even occurred if it hadn't been for the fact that neither Beck or Most were willing to pass up an opportunity to work at Motown.

Thinking about it, Babbitt not being able to go with Beck probably changed BOTH rock and pop music history to an amazing degree.

By recordboyusa (208.61.5.193 - 208.61.5.193) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 07:08 pm:

I played "90 Days In The County Jail" on the final installment of the "Soul Coal Factory", on the now-defunct internet station EyeQRadio.

I probably have part of that show on tape.

I love the intro to that record!

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com

By BOB BABBITT (205.188.198.58 - 205.188.198.58) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 09:18 pm:

HEY MO-FU�S

IT�S BEEN ABOUT 10 DAYS NOW SINCE BOBBY ELI MADE ME AWARE OF THE FORUM ON THE S0ULFULDETROIT SITE!! ALL THE NAMES FROM THAT ERA THAT HAVE BEEN POSTED AND THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE CONTACT WITH THEM AS WELL AS YOU INCREDIBLE FANS THAT ARE STILL INTO THE MUSIC TO THIS DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!! IF YOU HAVE BEEN READING ANY OF MY MESSAGES I GUESS BY NOW YOU REALIZE I AM NOT THE TYPE TO HOLD ANYTHING BACK.........THAT�S JUST ME AND I CAN BE INTENSE AND VERY AGGRESSIVE ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS OR PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!! IF BY SOME CHANCE I HAVE SAID SOMETHING OR I DO IN THE FUTURE SAY SOMETHING TO OFFENDED ANYONE I AM APOLOGIZING RIGHT NOW.......THAT SAID AND DONE..... ONWARD!!!!!!!!!!!
THE FIRST THING I WANT TO CLEAR UP IS MO-FU�S..............I BET YOU THINK THAT WHAT IT STANDS FOR IS....MOTHER F-----�S... RIGHT??? WRONG!!!!!! WHAT IT STANDS FOR IS......

MOTOWN FUNK�S
OR IF YOU ARE A FAN.......MOTOWN FUNK FAN�S

REAL PEOPLE
THAT LISTEN AND TALK ABOUT.........REAL MUSIC
THAT�S PLAYED BY.................................REAL PEOPLE

GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU
BOB BABBITT

I WILL POST THIS ALSO ON JAMERSON VS CAROL KAYE............. ....................POLY ESTHER HAS ASKED ME A QUESTION THAT WILL TAKE SOME TIME TO ANSWER SO LOOK FOR A MESSAGE TITLED �WHO�S PLAYING BASS�....ALSO I WILL TRY TO ANSWER ALL OF THE MESSAGES THAT I GET BUT IT MAY TAKE SOME TIME.

By John Lester (213.122.204.96 - 213.122.204.96) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 10:03 pm:

Bob.......we will be waiting patiently.....!!!

Let it all hang out mate....!!

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 10:29 pm:

Does anyone have any doubt that I portrayed Babbitt in a realistic way on his segment in the Tera Shirma story? Babbitt...you are truly one of life's unique individuals. God Bless YOU.

By BOB BABBITT (64.12.101.162 - 64.12.101.162) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 10:35 pm:

WRITERS, AND ARRANGERS AND THHEY MO-FU'S.............FLAT WOUND STRINGS AT MOTOWN......MEDIUM GAUGE....ACCORDING TO PHIL CHEN
(BASS PLAYER JEFF BECK, ROD STEWART) HE CLAIMS THAT IT WAS THE HEAVY GAUGE THAT JAMERSON USED....
I AM NOT SURE IF IT WAS THE HEAVY GAUGE, BUT WE BOTH USED THE LABELLA STRINGS...........
THE NAME BABBITT ..........IT STARTED WITH BOB, THEN BOB-O, THEN BAB-O, THEN BABBITT, (IT MAY HAVE COME FROM A CLEANSER CALLED BABBITT AT THAT TIME) THEN THERE WAS BAB'S..BUT BABBITT STUCK...
TOWER STUDIO........A THEATER...THE STUDIO WAS ON THE STAGE WHERE THE SCREEN WAS...IF YOU WERE SITTING IN THE SEATS LOOKING AT THE STAGE THE CONTROL ROOM WAS TO THE LEFT AND THE STUDIO AREA TO THE RIGHT......LONG RANGE PLANS AT THAT TIME WERE TO TAKE OUT ALL OF THE SEATS AND TO BUILD MORE STUDIOS...MIXING ROOMS.ETC. THE BACK OF THE THEATER HAD THE REST ROOMS AND A OFFICE, STORAGE AREA FOR TAPES( THAT MAY ALSO HAVE BEEN ON THE STAGE AREA?) AND I THINK SOME WRITING ROOMS......HDH ALSO HAD OFFICES AT A BUILDING IN DOWNTOWN DETROIT..........................
WITH KEY PRODUCERS, EN MUSICIANS SLOWLY MOVING OUT OF DETROIT THAT PUT AN ENDING TO ANY FUTURE PLANS FOR EXPANSION..
LATER MO-FU'S........BOB BABBITT

By BOB BABBITT (64.12.101.162 - 64.12.101.162) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 10:40 pm:

MO-FU'S.......THE TOWER STUDIO EXPANSION STARTED WIT KEY ARTST, WRITERS, PRODUCERS, ARRANGERS THEN THE MUSICIANS SLOWLY MOVING OUT OT DETROIT
BOB BABBITT

By BOB BABBITT (64.12.101.162 - 64.12.101.162) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 10:42 pm:

MAN IM NOT HERE TODAY...........THE KEY PEOPLE LEAVING DETROIT WAS THE END OF ANY EXPANSION PLANS

By DeAnne (24.120.38.66 - 24.120.38.66) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 12:47 am:

Hey Bob, It's DeAnne. What a website...too much fun. Remember the time we were at the West Fort Tavern, and a gun fight broke out and we were all under a long table eating popcorn. I can remember Marcus Terry and George Kasakis and Dennis Coffey and I all hudled together waiting for the action to stop so we could play again. The last time I saw you was in Primm Nevada with Brenda Lee a good ten years ago. It's so good to read about you and stay in touch.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 01:25 am:

Not that we want you Brits to get the idea that Detroit was a wild place to be. Some idiot pulled a gun while we ( The Sunlners ) were in the middle of a set. Man we all hit the floor.

By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 02:15 am:

That happened to me on my last night in Detroit! Some guy got shot over a pool game and we all got taken down to the police station. I got on a train to California the next day having had no sleep at all.

Bob made an important point. By 1972 the word was out about who the Motown musicians were and many were doing sessions for Atlantic, Stax and other labels all over the country. The days of spontaneously calling all the guys together for a session were over and it was probably easier to do that sort of thing in L.A. than Detroit. Motown didn't just pull the plug on a complete hit-making operation, a lot of us had left town and the others were doing lots of work in other cities.

The only thing that could have saved the recording scene in Detroit would have been a massive investment in new independent studios that could attract a lot of out of town business. Even then the majors and even Atlantic were interested mostly in self-contained rock group albums and the era of singles by great singing groups backed up by great musicians was drawing to a close.

By John Lester (213.1.133.160 - 213.1.133.160) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 08:57 am:

Yeah Ralph and I bet you were wishing you were under the table with DeAnne too.....eating popcorn!! Oops, there I go..and after promising to be good too!


Bob
That change in 1972 was more that just noticed here in the UK.....streams of staunch Detroit collectors realised that there was good music elsewhere - Mr Gordy made a bad decision as far as the music was concerned. That is why the likes of me have all that early Philly stuff in their collections....Backstabbers and one of my personal favourites, the Intruders "I'll Always Love My Mama" were both issued on CBS here which was pre-the Philadelphia International label. You know "Mama" is the earliest 45 that I can recall where the whole of the 6:30 odd LP version was played at the discos.

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.5 - 62.254.0.5) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 09:09 am:

John - Bob

Yes, I fully agree with your assessment and with John's. I think there's also another factor. By '72, the original "Motown Sound" was a thing of the past, possibly with the departure of HDH, and artists like Stevie and Marvin taking control of their music. This is another reason why I suspect that Gamble & Huff were able to clean up. The "Philly Sound" had a distinctive character, like a 70s equivalent to that of Motown - a totally different, yet still instantly recognisable sound and "feel". (To say nothing of the fact that there were some fabulous records there... Back Stabbers is still a stunner today!)

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.122.188.30 - 213.122.188.30) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 12:33 pm:

bob thanks for the detail on tower.

final questions, bear with me on these...

-what did the exterior of the building look like.
-can you remember which corner of the junction it was on? was it on the corner?
-i wonder if it was a big theater? capacity?
-were there overdub rooms in the building? or was it all happening on the stage.

i know it is demolished now but i will go and photograph the site in april.

reference h/d/h/ downtown, they were in 2 floors of cadillac towers, cadillac square.

By John Lester (213.122.195.128 - 213.122.195.128) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 01:41 pm:

David....did you know there were little postcards in those Invictus albums saying write to this address and find out more..it had a Cadillac towers address....

Dont say I gotta find one!!

By drums (208.251.209.82 - 208.251.209.82) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 02:04 pm:

Hey Bob & Bobby Eli!

Did you guys hear the song on Angie Stones' Mahogany Soul CD that samples the first 8 bars of "Backstabbers"? The young kids will hear that and think that it is something cool and original!! If the young cats only knew!!

DM

PS. Ithink it is track 8. I forget the name of the song!

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.122.52.110 - 213.122.52.110) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 02:41 pm:

john
remember when you first did the tour?

there's a pic of the skyscraper in there.

http://soulfuldetroit.com/detroit/index.html
click on 'invictus'

By Ade (193.129.220.205 - 193.129.220.205) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 07:16 pm:

In reference to the drummer (!!) Angie Stones two albums are definitely worth a look, but you are so right about that sample!

By philysoulman (205.188.199.183 - 205.188.199.183) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 09:45 pm:

Philly International as a label started in early 1971 in America, and were originally isued on C.B.S., the distributing company for several years
outside of America. Yes I always saw P.I.R. as a continuation of the great music that was done in detroit. A lot of earlier Philly records such as The Volcanos( ladies man was recordes at Golden World wit the usual cast) The 81 was a nod to Martha and the Vandellas, At the top of the stairs was kind of a nod to the Iselys so Motown was definitely an influence. The old Cameo studios captured it the best, including my ancient production of James Bounty.

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 09:53 pm:

bob..thanks for your help on tower. hopefully this brings back good memories.

By John Lester (213.122.199.189 - 213.122.199.189) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 11:30 pm:

and we now know who R Kreiner is!!

See how informative this site it!!

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.122.113.229 - 213.122.113.229) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 08:48 am:

yes but who is norman sands?

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 12:10 pm:

These label scans are a work of art. I have been trying to get a mate of mine who is in the business of printing 'wall posters'to consider doing a few record labels. I am convinced that record labels with classic songs on would be a revenue stream, probably not alot though. But imagine if they were done tastefully, how attractive they would be. I have two of my favourite 45's in a glass showcase. One has the original 1971 sheet music issue in it too. They are as good as any photo, because they hold so many memories.

Just a thought and a total diversion away from Norman Sands!!

By Clay McMurray (66.73.183.9 - 66.73.183.9) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 12:23 pm:

What's up Babbit?
You played on a few songs for me before you got big and famous and also after you got big and famous.(Smile) I personally think you're not only
one of best Bass players of the(3) that came out of Detroit(J.J.& Tony Newton)that I loved and worked with,but you're still the genuine guy today
that you were when we met over 30yrs ago. I was really glad to have the chance to hook up with you after so many years, at the Funk Bros Filming in Royal Oak. Your Wife has done a great job taking care of ya thru it all and Baby you still play your Ass off just like you did in the day when I use to tell the Producers in Detroit about this "Big White Dude who wears cowboy boots and has hair like Elvis,but can play like a Brother!
It's history now my brother and Thanks for your
patients and talent when I was learning what to do in the studio you were always there for me. I know we talked about getting together to do some recording at my studio when you were here, but our schedules did'nt click. I sincerely hope that we have the chance to stomp it off again with some of the key Cats in the near future. Let me know the next time you're gonna be in town. See what happens when you work in the Ghetto! you become a Legend(Smile)

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 02:28 pm:

WOW...there is a name I haven't heard in YEARS...Norman Sands...Babbitt you may have to help me out here but wasn't Norman a talent agent?

By Ian W (213.1.165.137 - 213.1.165.137) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 09:07 pm:

Babbitt strikes again! More Sands!

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 09:16 pm:

If memory serves me correctly....I seem to remember TS billing Norman Sands for things Babbitt was doing in the studio. Am I right Bob? This is a great scan...Ray Monette, Mike Campbell and Babbitt as writers...arrangers..Theo Coff, and produced by the inimitable Bob Babbitt. Thank you Ian. good one!!

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 09:47 pm:

ian great posting. i've never heard of this record or group.

By BOB BABBITT (152.163.195.176 - 152.163.195.176) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 10:29 pm:

HEY MO-FU�S...............WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT PHOTOS OF SMASH RECORDS AND HEARING FROM CLAY HAS MADE MY DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CLAY.........FIRST OF ALL SAY HI TO YOUR WIFE FOR ME ( SHE SANG BACKGROUND VOCALS ON THE FUNK BROTHER FILM).......THE FILM WILL BE PREMIERED IN DETROIT MAR OR APRIL...HOPE TO SEE YOU GUYS THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE TOWER STUDIO......I HAVE SENT A MESSAGE ABOUT THE INSIDE OF THE BUILDING BUT I DON�T REMEMBER TO MUCH ABOUT THE OUTSIDE?? I THINK THAT YOU WOULD ENTER THE BUILDING FROM THE SIDE NEAR THE FRONT......THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO WALK THRU THE SEATING AREA TO THE STAGE........THERE WAS A LOCATION POSTED SOMEWHERE, SEEMS LIKE IT WAS GRAND RIVER AND MYERS?????
NORMAN SANDS......NORMAN WAS THE FIRST DRUMMER THAT I WORKED WITH WHEN I MOVED TO DETROIT..... WE HAD A BAND CALLED THE �COUNTS�....WHEN I MOVED THERE I STAYED WITH MY GRANDMOTHER AND WHEN I TOLD HER THE NAME OF THE BAND SHE SAID THE �CUNTS�.. I SAID NO GRANDMA THE �COUNTS........SHE SAID AGAIN THE �CUNTS�... NO GRANDMA THE �COUNTS�..... WELL WE WENT BACK AND FORTH FOR A WHILE!!........BACK TO NORMAN.................HE HAD AN UNFORTUNATE ACCIDENT ONE DAY...A BEER BOTTLE BLEW UP IN HIS HANDS.....HE COULD NOT PLAY DRUMS ANY MORE...... NOW , LOVING THE MUSIC BUSINESS SO MUCH NORMAN STARTED HIS OWN BOOKING AGENCY.....WITH HIS ENORMOUS OPTIMISM AND CONSISTENTLY DEVELOPING A FRIENDSHIP AND A RAPPORT WITH BANDS, DANCERS (CALLED GO-GO GIRLS THEN) AND CLUB OWNERS HE BECAME THE NUMBER ONE BOOKING AGENCY IN DETROIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BEING ONE OF NORMAN�S BEST FRIENDS HE APPROACHED ME AND ASKED ME TO BE INVOLVED IN A PRODUCTION COMPANY HE WANTED TO HAVE TO RECORD SOME OF THE ACTS HE WAS BOOKING AND HAVE ME PRODUCE THEM.......
........DANNY WOODS WAS ONE OF THEM....THE DEAL FOR DANNY�S RECORD WAS MADE WITH SMASH RECORDS WHO IN TURN ASKED ME TO PRODUCE IRENE AND THE SCOTT�S FOR THEM...........SOMETIME AFTER I HAD MOVED TO THE EAST COAST I HAD HEARD RUMORS OF NORMANS BUSINESS GOING DOWNHILL.....HIS PARTNER LEFT HIM, A DIVORCE FROM HIS WIFE..........WHICH EVENTUALLY LED TO A SAD ENDING..SUICIDE....

BOB BABBITT

By BOB BABBITT (152.163.195.176 - 152.163.195.176) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 10:34 pm:

RALPH...........ALL OF THE ACTS THAT WERE RECORDED BY NORMAN SANDS PRODUCTION'S WERE RECORDED AT TERA SHIRMA..THE ORIGINAL STUDIO...
BOB BABBITT

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 10:39 pm:

Thanks Bob. I'm sorry to learn of Norman's tragic ending.

By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 10:46 pm:

Hey Clay!

Babbitt is down here in Nashville and I swear he's playing better than ever! I got to watch him playing upright the last two Friday nights. It was just like watching Mingus, almost nobody wrestles that much feeling out of an upright bass. I was thinking about how much bass playing might have been changed if Jamerson and Babbitt had the kind of upright bass pickups in the '60s that we have today. The funk really is in the fingers.

By phillysoulman (205.188.199.34 - 205.188.199.34) on Wednesday, February 13, 2002 - 11:41 pm:

I SECOND THAT EMOTION!!!

By DeAnne (24.120.38.66 - 24.120.38.66) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 01:03 am:

I do have a picture or two of Norm Sands. I knew him well, and worked with him during the days he was a drummer, and knew him well as an agent. He came to the Dearborn Townhouse the weekend before he died, and he gave George Sheehan a great leather hat which I still have. He also produced the local club paper "Panorama" for a few years. Babitt...you didn't say "Hello"...have you forgotten me?

By BOB BABBITT (64.12.101.176 - 64.12.101.176) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 04:42 am:

DeANNE.......I HAVE NOT FORGOT YOU AND I APOLOIZE
FOR NOT SAYING HELLO....HELLO DeANNE...HOPE YOU ARE DOING FINE AND ARE IN GOOD HEALTH!!!!!!!!
ISN'T IT GREAT TO BE IN CONTACT WITH OLD FRIENDS!!!
AND BOB OLHSSON..THATS QUITE A COMPLIMENT YOU GAVE ME............THANK YOU........THE CHECK IS IN THE MAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND SPEAKING OF A PHOTO OF NORMAN SANDS........ THE FUNK BROTHER FILM HAS A PHOTO OF THE BAND THE "COUNTS" IN IT...NORMAN WAS THE DRUMMER
IN THAT BAND!!!!!!
BOB BABBITT

By BOB BABBITT (64.12.101.156 - 64.12.101.156) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 04:50 am:

HEY MO-FU'S......HERE COMES THE "WHO'S PLAYING BASS".............TRY TO READ THE WHOLE THING..
I HOPE IT WILL OPEN YOUR EYES AS TO WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO A MUSICIAN IN THE STUDIO WORLD.........
BOB BABBITT

By BOB BABBITT (64.12.101.166 - 64.12.101.166) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:04 am:

WHO�S PLAYING BASS ?

I�M SORRY FOR THE LENGTH OF THIS MESSAGE BUT I WAS ASKED A QUESTION BY POLY ESTER THAT THE ONLY WAY I CAN ANSWER IS TO TELL YOU IN DETAIL........

YOU MAY READ SOMEONE�S RESUME AND SEE THAT THEY HAD PLAYED ON CERTAIN
SONGS YET SOMEONE ELSE LAYS CLAIM TO PLAYING ON ONE OF THE SONGS (OR MORE THAN ONE) OR YOU ACTUALLY READ SOMEWHERE THAT IT IS ANOTHER MUSICIAN PLAYING ON A PARTICULAR SONG (SONGS) .....................WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN????????
WELL THERE ARE SEVERAL POSSIBILITY�S TO TALK ABOUT................................
I GUESS THE FIRST ONE IS THAT THE RESUME IS A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SECONDLY THERE WERE A LOT OF ALBUMS RELEASED WITH NO CREDITS ON THE RECORDS, AND ALSO A LOT OF THE SESSIONS DID NOT GO THRU THE UNION SO AS A RESULT THERE WERE NO CONTRACTS AND THE CONTRACTS WOULD HAVE THE NAME OF THE PLAYERS ON THEM................ANOTHER THING THAT MAY HAPPEN IS THE SONG IS RECORDED AND THEN IT IS RE-RECORDED AT ANOTHER TIME (SOMETIMES LATER THAT SAME DAY OR THE NEXT DAY).....AND THEN STILL ANOTHER, THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING OVERDUBBED ON..................WHEN YOU ARE CONSTANTLY DAY AFTER DAY FOR YEARS PLAYING ON RECORDS IT CAN BE HARD TO REMEMBER EVERYTHING YOU PLAYED ON...
IT GOT TO BE LIKE A FACTORY JOB IN DETROIT AND WHEN WE KNEW THERE WAS NO SESSION�S GOING ON WE WOULD HIDE OUT AT THE GOLF COURSE! I HAVE BEEN TOLD THRU THE YEARS OR PERSONALLY HEARD OTHER MUSICIANS WHO HAVE TALKED ABOUT PLAYING ON RECORDS THAT I KNOW THEY DID NOT PLAY ON...SOME PEOPLE MAY JUST BELIEVE THEM.....I KNOW A MUSICIAN WHO CLAIMED HE PLAYED ON RECORDS THAT I KNOW HE DID NOT, YET WHEN SOMEONE CONFRONTED HIM AND ASKED HIM IF HE REALLY HAD PLAYED ON THOSE RECORDS HE REPLIED....... .....�I WOULD DO OR SAY ANYTHING TO PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE FOR MY KIDS�....... HERE IS A EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED.....................................
ONE OF THE EX-EMPLOYEES AT THE DETROIT MUSICIANS UNION CLAIMS THAT AT SOME POINT IN THE EARLY 80�S THEY SHREDDED THE CONTRACTS BECAUSE THEY WERE RUNNING OUT OF ROOM WHERE THEY STORED THEM????????
THEN WHEN THE MOVIE AND TV INDUSTRY STARTED USING THE SONGS FOR BACKGROUND MUSIC THE FILM COMPANIES NEEDED TO SEE A COPY OF THE CONTRACT BEFORE THEY WOULD PAY ANYONE!! WELL IN DETROIT THEY MADE UP WHAT THEY CALLED MOCK CONTRACTS AND ASSUMED CERTAIN PLAYERS HAD PLAYED ON THESE RECORDS..............AS FAR AS THE BASS IN THE CASE OF MOTOWN THEY JUST THOUGHT JAMERSON HAD PLAYED ON THESE RECORDS AND PUT HIS NAME ON THE MOCK CONTRACTS, THEN THEY WOULD SUBMIT THEM TO THE FILM COMPANIES AND ALSO PUT THEM ON FILE.........NOW IF SOMEONE WAS TO READ THOSE MOCK CONTRACTS THEY WOULD THINK THAT THE PLAYERS NAMED ON THE CONTRACTS WERE THE ONES PLAYING ON THE RECORD .......ONE RECORD THAT I PLAYED ON WAS �MERCY MERCY� FROM THE MARVIN GAYE ALBUM �WHAT�S GOING ON�....IT WAS USED AS BACKGROUND MUSIC FOR SEVERAL FILMS AND COMMERCIALS..........THERE WERE NO RHYTHM SECTION CONTRACT�S FOR THAT ALBUM SO SOMEONE AT THE DETROIT UNION PUT JAMERSON�S NAME ON THE MOCK CONTRACT AND NOT ONLY WERE THE RESIDUALS PAID TO HIM BUT IF SOMEONE WOULD READ THAT CONTRACT THEY WOULD THINK THAT HE ALSO PLAYED ON THAT RECORD.................HOW ABOUT THIS!!! THE SONG �WAR� BY EDWIN STARR....... IT HAS BEEN USED ON 6 OR 7 DIFFERENT MOVIES AS WELL AS THE THEME SONG FOR A POPULAR TV SHOW....GUESS WHAT????? THERE ARE TWO CONTRACTS THE UNION RECEIVED, ONE FOR THE TITLE �WAR� AND ONE FOR THE TITLE �WAR PART TWO�..... HAVING PLAYED ON THE EDWIN STARR RECORD AND HEARING IT ON THE FILMS AND TV BUT NOT GETTING ANY RESIDUALS I CALLED THE NATIONAL UNION TO FIND OUT WHY?........THEY TOLD ME ABOUT THE TWO CONTRACTS AND THAT SOME OF THE MUSICIANS WHO WERE ON �WAR PART TWO� (THE ARTIST TURNED OUT TO BE THE TEMPTATIONS) CLAIMED THAT WAS THE VERSION THAT WAS THE EDWIN STARR VERSION......AND GET THIS! THE CONTRACTS HAD NO ARTIST LISTED ON THEM SO THE UNION WENT AND PAID THE MUSICIANS ON THE �WAR PART TWO� CONTRACT........NOW, THE NAMES ON BOTH OF THE CONTRACTS WERE ALMOST THE SAME...BUT MY NAME WAS ON �WAR� AND JAMERSON�S NAME WAS ON �WAR PART TWO�...... THE UNION FAXED ME BOTH OF THE CONTRACTS AND ON THE CONTRACTS WERE THE DATES THEY WERE RECORDED...ON THE �WAR� CONTRACT THAT MY NAME WAS ON THE DATE WAS MAY 1970...THE DATE ON �WAR PART TWO� WAS SEPTEMBER 1970.......I HAVE A BOX SET OF MOTOWN SONGS THAT ALSO HAS A BOOKLET ENCLOSED WITH THE RECORDS....IN THIS BOOKLET ALONG WITH THE ARTIST AND THE TITLE OF SONG THEY ALSO GIVE THE DATE OF RELEASE.................�WAR� BY EDWIN STARR WAS RELEASED IN JUNE 1970................... BUT GUESS WHAT ????? THE UNION CLAIMS THAT MOTOWN AT TIMES WAITED TO FILE THEIR CONTRACTS AND THAT THIS POSSIBLY COULD HAVE HAPPENED TO THIS RECORD? SO NOW THEY DON�T WANT TO PAY ON EITHER CONTRACT.............. AGAIN IF THEY DO NOT DETERMINE WHICH CONTRACT IS THE EDWIN STARR CONTRACT SOMEONE COULD THINK JAMERSON PLAYED ON THAT RECORD.... ALSO...ON THE SPINNERS BOX SET RELEASE THEY GIVE CREDITS ON EACH INDIVIDUAL CUT, BUT FOR THE MOTOWN SONG �IT�S A SHAME� THEY SAY THE MUSICIANS �PROBABLY WERE�.... (JAMERSON DID PLAY BASS) ....AND ANOTHER CUT FROM DETROIT�S PAC-3 STUDIO HAS NO CREDITS AND....YEAH YOU GUESSED IT ( I AM POSITIVE IT WAS THE DENNIS COFFEY ROAD BAND THAT ANDREW SMITH AND I WERE IN).... NOW IF A SESSION WAS RE-CUT OR SOMEONE CAME IN TO OVERDUB AND THEY PLAYED THE EXACT THING THAT WAS PLAYED ON THE ORIGINAL (MAYBE BETTER FEEL OR BETTER EXECUTION) AND THE SOUND WAS CLOSE TO YOU IT MAY BE HARD TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE, BUT I THINK EVERY PLAYER CAN TELL THEIR OWN SOUND AND THEY HAVE THEIR SIGNATURE LICKS THAT THEY PLAY..................ALSO AT TIMES THE ARRANGER OR THE PRODUCER MAY NOT LIKE THE OVERDUB AND GET SOME ONE ELSE TO OVERDUB OR GO BACK TO THE ORIGINAL...THIS ALSO HAPPENS AT TIMES WITH RE-CUTTING THE WHOLE TRACK..........ALSO I HAVE WORKED FOR SOME PRODUCERS THAT WERE SO MUCH INTO DRUGS THAT THE POSSIBILITY OF THEM FORGETTING WHO ACTUALLY PLAYED ON THE RECORDS THEY PRODUCED EXIST...AND SOME PRODUCERS AND ARRANGERS WERE SO BUSY THEY DON�T REALLY REMEMBER............................... NOW SOME THINGS THAT I PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED TO SHOW YOU WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.......� COOL JERK�.....I�M IN A BAR ACROSS THE STREET FROM GOLDEN WORLD STUDIO WHERE COOL JERK WAS RECORDED ...... THAT STUDIO LATER BECAME MOTOWN STUDIO B.........IN THIS BAR WITH ME WAS JAMERSON, WE DID HANG OUT A LOT TOGETHER........IN THE BAR WAS A GREAT SOUNDING BUBBLE JUKE BOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT STARTED PLAYING �COOL JERK�......NOW JAMERSON WALKED OVER TO THE JUKE BOX AND LEANED DOWN IN FRONT OF IT AND AT THE SAME TIME WAVED ME OVER NEXT TO HIM AT THE JUKE BOX........HE SAID TO ME...�LISTEN TO THAT BASS�.... I SAID �YEAH, WHAT ABOUT IT?�......HE STOOD UP AND POUNDED HIS HANDS ON HIS CHEST AND SAID �MWAA�... ME THAT�S ME�..........I SAID �NOOOOO....THAT'S ME� WELL YOU KNOW WHAT HE SAID...... �THEY MUST HAVE RE-CUT THE RECORD�..... SO THERE YOU GO, IF BY SOME CHANCE HE DID TELL ANYONE THAT HE PLAYED ON THAT PARTICULAR RECORD I�M SURE THEY WOULD HAVE BELIEVED HIM................NO CREDITS ON THOSE RECORDS HURT EVERYONE..... ALSO FOR THE RARE EARTH GROUP I DID AN ALBUM CUT AND ALSO THE SINGLE �LOSING YOU�.......NO CREDITS.... THE GROUP�S BASS PLAYER GOT THE CREDITS AND I HAVE ALREADY TOLD YOU ABOUT SIMILAR SITUATIONS WITH P-FUNK AND THE FLAMING EMBERS...... ALSO I DID A OVERDUB ON A WILSON PICKETT RECORD �DON�T KNOCK MY LOVE� THAT THEY GAVE CREDITS TO THE ORIGINAL BASS PLAYER ON A COMPILATION ALBUM....... WHEN I TALKED TO THE ORIGINAL BASS PLAYER ABOUT IT HE TOLD ME NO WAY...THAT HE IS THE BASS PLAYER ON THAT SONG...... THERE WERE TWO PRODUCERS I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO CONTACT, MAYBE THEY CAN SHED SOME LIGHT ON THIS?...I HAVE FOUND OUT ONE HAS PASSED AWAY, AND THE OTHER NO ONE SEEMS TO KNOW WHERE HE IS???
THE RECORD �TOUCH ME IN THE MORNING� BY DIANA ROSS WAS ONE THAT I HAD OVERDUBBED THE BASS ON AT MOTOWN STUDIO B...........YET ON A DIANA ROSS GREATEST HITS ALBUM THEY GAVE CREDITS TO AN L.A. BASSIST BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THE ORIGINAL TRACK WAS CUT.........IF THERE WAS A CONTRACT FILED IN L.A. IT WOULD PROBABLY HAVE THE L.A. BASS PLAYER�S NAME ON IT.........ONE THING I REMEMBER ABOUT THAT OVERDUB.... THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I EVER TOOK MY WIFE TO THE STUDIO AND WHEN THAT RECORD BECAME A HIT I WANTED HER TO COME TO ALL OF MY SESSIONS BECAUSE I THOUGHT SHE WAS A GOOD LUCK CHARM!!!!! ANOTHER RECORD CUT IN SOMERVILLE, NEW JERSEY AT TONY CAMILLO�S VENTURE SOUND STUDIO ( TONY WAS A PRODUCER, ARRANGER WHO WORKED IN DETROIT FOR HDH WHERE I MET HIM) THE RECORD WE RECORDED THERE WAS GLADYS KNIGHT & THE PIPS �MIDNIGHT TRAIN TO GEORGIA�..........NOW THE ORIGINAL SESSION HAD 3 GUITARS, 2 KEYBOARDS, DRUMS, PERCUSSION, AND BASS....AFTER WE RECORDED IT TONY CALLED EVERYONE BACK TO RECORD IT AGAIN BECAUSE HE SAID THE INITIAL RECORDING DID NOT FEEL RIGHT.............WELL, THE SAME BAND RECORDED IT A SECOND TIME...........AND GUESS WHAT............THE FOLLOWING SUNDAY TONY CALLED ANDREW SMITH AND MYSELF ALONG WITH GUITARIST JEFF MIRONOV TO YET AGAIN RECORD THE SONG AS THE FEEL WAS STILL NOT YET RIGHT.........THE THREE OF US ALONG WITH TONY PLAYING A SCRATCH PIANO PART (HE LATER OVERDUBBED THE PIANO, NOT ONE OF THE ORIGINAL PLAYERS) CUT THE TRACK AND GUESS WHAT??????? YEP...THAT WAS THE TRACK THAT BECAME THE RECORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT SONG WON THE GRAMMY FOR SONG OF THE YEAR.. .....NOW IF YOU PLAY ON A RECORD THAT WINS A GRAMMY YOU GET PAID AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WELL I WORKED WITH A COUPLE OF THE PLAYERS THAT PLAYED ON THE ORIGINAL SESSION AND THEY GOT PAID ALSO!!!!!!!!!! THERE WAS A CONTRACT FILED ON THE ORIGINAL SESSION WITH ALL OF THE ORIGINAL NAMES....NOW IT WOULD BE HARD TO TELL THOSE GUYS THAT THEY DID NOT PLAY ON THE RECORD AFTER THEY GOT PAID FOR THE GRAMMY..................ANOTHER STORY ABOUT THAT RECORD, WHEN I MOVED TO NASHVILLE AND WAS PURSUING WORK I WAS TOLD BY MOST OF THE PRODUCERS THAT THEY WANTED TO SEE MY RESUME.....NOW THE ALBUM THAT �MIDNIGHT TRAIN TO GEORGIA � WAS ON HAD NO CREDITS...�WHAT�S NEW????? SO A PRODUCER THAT I HAD SENT MY RESUME TO CALLED ME AND SAID, I SEE THAT YOUR RESUME SAY�S THAT YOU PLAYED ON �MIDNIGHT TRAIN TO GEORGIA� I SAID YES I DID, AND THEN HE SAID TO ME, I WENT OUT TO BUY THE ALBUM WITH THAT SONG ON IT AND I DID NOT SEE YOUR NAME ON IT, HOW DO I KNOW THAT YOU ARE PLAYING ON IT????.........ANY BASS PLAYER COULD HAVE LAID CLAIM TO THAT SONG..........ANDREW SMITH AND I PLAYED ON SEVERAL RECORDS IN NEW YORK WHERE EITHER CREDITS WERE GIVEN TO SOMEONE ELSE OR WE JUST DID NOT GET ANY CREDITS.....�JUST DON�T WANT TO BE LONELY� MAIN INGREDIENT....NO CREDITS �KISS AND SAY GOODBYE�........MANHATTANS..... NO CREDITS...IN FACT THERE IS A CD OUT WITH THAT SONG ALONG WITH OTHER SONGS THEY RECORDED...EVERY SONG ON THAT ALBUM GIVES CREDITS EXCEPT.....YEAH YOU GUESSED IT!!! �KISS AND SAY GOODBYE�................ WE ALSO PLAYED ON A JIM CROCE HIT CALLED �I GOT A NAME�......GUESS WHAT??
THE ALBUM LIST OTHER MUSICIANS AS THE PLAYERS......... ABOUT THAT RECORD, WHEN WE HAD RECORDED THAT SONG ANDREW AND I WERE STAYING TOGETHER IN NEW BRUNSWICK, NEW JERSEY UNTIL WE MOVED OUR FAMILIES TO THE EAST COAST AND NOT EVEN ONE WEEK AFTER WE RECORDED THAT SONG WE HEARD IT ON THE RADIO
AND LOVED THE SOUND OF OUR INSTRUMENTS, THE MIX, AND THOUGHT IT SOUNDED GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!! ANOTHER SITUATION THAT HAPPENED TO ME WAS THE FIRST TALKING HEADS ALBUM............I OVERDUBBED THE BASS PARTS..........PLAYED WITH A PICK...THE SOUND WAS EXACTLY LIKE THE PARTS ON THE RECORD....THEY NEEDED THE SAME NOTES BUT WITH A BETTER FEEL AND BETTER EXECUTION.....YEAH NO CREDITS....THE PRODUCERS DID NOT EVEN TELL THE GROUP..........ANOTHER RECORD I OVERDUBBED 5 (FIVE) SONGS ON WAS ROBERTA FLACK�S �BLUE LIGHTS IN THE BASEMENT� AMONG THOSE 5 SONGS I OVERDUBBED THE HIT �CLOSE TO YOU�... BUT GUESS WHAT????????? YEAH NO CREDITS....THE ALBUM GIVES CREDITS TO THREE OTHER BASS PLAYERS (ONE OF THEM WAS EVEN MENTIONED TWICE)...FUNNY THING HAPPENED THOUGH......ONE DAY MY DOOR BELL RANG AND A GOLD RECORD WAS SENT TO ME FOR THAT RECORD...I GUESS SOMEONE FELT GUILTY????????? NOW I WANT TO SAY THAT EVERY RECORD THAT I HAVE CLAIMED TO PLAY ON I REALLY FEEL IN MY HEART AND SOUL THAT I PLAYED ON THESE RECORDS.. AND WHEN I HEAR THESE SONGS I CAN VISUALIZE THE SESSION AND REMEMBER CERTAIN THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THE STUDIO ............�TEARS OF A CLOWN�............. I ONLY DID A COUPLE OF SESSIONS FOR SMOKEY AND I REMEMBER THAT RECORD AS BEING ONE OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YET I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT JAMERSON IS GIVEN CREDITS FOR THIS RECORD......... HOW COULD I FORGET THE DESCENDING BASS LINE IN �SIGNED SEALED AND DELIVERED� AND THE FEW SIGNATURE LICKS? YET BASS PLAYER MICHAEL HENDERSON IS LAYING CLAIM TO THAT ONE..........ONE THING I WANT TO SAY IS THAT IF I HAD PLAYED ON A HIT RECORD FOR ANY ARTIST AND I ALSO PLAYED LIVE FOR THEM I WOULD BE PROUD TO PLAY THE BASS LINE THAT I PLAYED JUST LIKE THE RECORD OR AS CLOSE TO THE RECORD THAT I CAN GET ...........YET MY BASS PLAYER FRIEND PHIL CHEN SENT ME A TAPE OF A LIVE STEVIE WONDER CONCERT AND MICHAEL HENDERSON WAS THE BASS PLAYER.....WHEN STEVIE DID �SIGNED SEALED AND DELIVERED� THE BASS PART PLAYED ON THAT TAPE WAS NO WHERE LIKE THE RECORD.................THE JACKSON 5 RECORDS.....WE RECORDED A NUMEROUS AMOUNT OF SESSIONS FOR THEM IN DETROIT, BUT THE HITS ARE SAID TO HAVE BEEN RECORDED IN L.A.?? IT IS HARD AFTER ALL THE YEARS THAT HAVE GONE BY THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU HEAR THAT OTHER BASS PLAYERS ARE GETTING CREDIT FOR SOME OF YOUR WORK...............IF IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THOSE FEW SONGS THAT ARE IN QUESTION THAT THERE WERE RE-CUTS OR OVERDUBS I WILL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THAT.....BUT..................
.................................. A BASS PLAYER IN NEW YORK ONCE SAID TO ME.....................................


�I KNOW WHAT RECORDS I PLAYED ON�
BOB BABBITT

By recordboyusa (208.61.5.193 - 208.61.5.193) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 06:15 am:

Hi Bob,
Great story! I can just picture the "Cool Jerk" jukebox scene: "that's me on there! No, Mo-Fu, that's me"!

I am a huge fan of the Flaming Ember's Hot Wax material, even if Jerry Plunk is the only actual band member on the records. That cat could sing. "Shades of Green" is soul with a capital S! And what an unusual song and beat on "Deserted Village" -- genius, I say!

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com

By ClayMcMurray (66.73.186.30 - 66.73.186.30) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 06:22 am:

Hey Babbit,
Thanks for the holler back my wife says it was really sweet of you to mention her and she truly enjoyed working with you and feeling your warm spirit during the recording of the FUNK BRO's
film. She hopes that when you come back to the city in March/April that we might be able to get together for dinner or something. I would like to put a small nail in your foot and cut 3 or 4 tracks(Smile) So try to work it where you've got
a little time to hang out at my place. In fact I'm gonna try to hook up with all the Cats and do that session we talked about during the FBro's busy schedule. Noboby on the planet makes music like we made music here and my studio has a similiar FUNK vibe like West Grand. Plus everychance I get I go over to West Grand inhale the air and the vibe from the studio hold my breath get back in my truck drive over to my studio and exhale the air and the vibe and watch it settle in the room. Since they no longer use it
I feel being an Alumni,who's blood, sweat and footprints are all over the place from the Exec offices,Quality control and all the rooms,visible
hidden and otherwise who never wanted it to die, that maybe this way I can help to preserve a bit of it's history by stashing the air and the vibe at"Love"n"Comfort Studio's private analog room. Let me know for sure when you're on your way(Dates)you have my number, if not e-mail me and I'll send it. Give our best to your Bride.

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 02:47 pm:

Bob Babbit

So it is a classic 'who's on first bass, what's on second and I don't know�s on third bass?' Was it Abbot and Costello writing out the contracts? Very interesting, throughout. I was glued to the monitor whilst reading it with toast and marmalade in one hand and a brew in the other! I remember reading many years ago it was you credited to 'Cool Jerk' and 'Tears of a clown'. I guess as songs progress, they take a different shape and in addition different musicians maybe. Cue boring Carl story: I first heard 'Cool Jerk' by The Capitols in about 1974 when it preceded another song I had never heard by Dobie Gray called 'Out on the Floor'. I was sat down in the corner of this club when Cool Jerk started and within about 3 seconds I was up to the DJ to find out what is was. Then to my amazement up popped Dobie and another visit to the DJ. I once read the original Cool Jerk was by a group called The Skull- something or others (snaps -maybe). Does anybody know?? It was the same label I think.

By DeAnne (24.234.119.126 - 24.234.119.126) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 03:28 pm:

to: record boy...(interest in Flaming Embers)
I know this is no place to gossip, and I hope I am not telling tales out of school but it's a great love story that has stayed with me througout the years. Jerry Plunket with the Flaming Embers loved Telma Hopkins with Dawn (not at that time) in the late 60's Their love affair was very difficult because of the black and white issues in Detroit at that time. Jerry said to me one time in the back dressing room of the dearborn Townehouse during a break that Telma could get him more excited walking in a room that most women in bed. God, I never forgot that. It was such true love. What the hell it's Valentines day. Got to go to work now.

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 04:07 pm:

DeAnne - lovely story! And now as I know she sang on my 'Jerryo' CD comp, I can appreciate it even more.

By recordboyusa (208.61.5.193 - 208.61.5.193) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 05:02 pm:

I wonder if Jerry was thinking of Telma when he sang "let's have a love-in"

Those Dawn girls did some good work with the Debonaires... and I guess their voices were on lots and lots of records, without us even realizing it!

Jeff Lemlich

By phillysoulman (64.12.101.177 - 64.12.101.177) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 07:11 pm:

Yo Babbitt,
Your post was spellbinding. Having known you throughout the years, I was imagining your voice in my mind as I read the story.
We need to collaborate on an Audio Book based on our studio experiences. It would be a classic and we could mke out well with it. As a matter of fact, it could be a colaborative effort with others who have had that experience, myself included.
Having been the co-writer of " Just don't want to be lonely,I never knew the you and Andrew played on it!!!!, and it has been almost thirty years!!!

As far as "Kiss and say goodbye" goes it must have been re-cut in Phily because that ws me on that "country" guitar part. In fact , when we finishes the track, Ronnie Baker laughed with his giggly high pitched laugh and said" Who the f**k will buy this country s**t" and proceeded to make believe that he was wiping his arse with the music.
And the rest , as they say is history!!!!

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 07:14 pm:

Mike Theodore and Dennis Coffey also produced Telma and Joyce in a group that I can't recall the name of. I think there was two guys in the group also. One guy was named Rock who Joyce would eventually marry. I remember he wanted to be a recording engineer, so we were going to put him in a training program at Tera Shirma.I don't remember what happened with that. I don't remember what happened with the group either. Mike...if you're looking in, can you enlighten us a little.

By phillysoulman (64.12.101.176 - 64.12.101.176) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 08:49 pm:

Sign me up for the training program, now!!!!
I need to get my s**t together .
Where did ya say that cable goes???

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 08:55 pm:

telma and joyce were in the debonaires.

i don't know if there was male involvement however.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 09:03 pm:

David,
This was something other than a Debonaires project. Well have to hear from Mike Theodore on this one.

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 09:05 pm:

ralph
are we talking of 'tony orlando and dawn'?

By Ian W (213.122.6.136 - 213.122.6.136) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:37 pm:

Everyone

This could be the best discussion so far! And that's saying something!

a) what else did Bob Babbitt produce in the 60s?
b) is there a photo of Telma?
c) can I be a trainee recording engineer at TS?
d) cd featuring Bobby Eli, the Babbitt, Clay writing, DeAnne singing, Ralph bringing everything together! Wow!
e) it's the same Dawn - they had a 45 which was played on the northern circuit

Ian

By recordboyusa (208.61.5.193 - 208.61.5.193) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 11:56 pm:

Didn't Telma also record as Telma Laverne? That ever-elusive "Baby Don't You Know" 45?

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 01:14 am:

David....This was before Tony Orlando and Dawn.Telma and Joyce were still singing back up at this time, but Theo-Coff had put a group together with Telma and Joyce and two guys. Kind of a 5th Dimension think if my memory serves me correctly.
i believe only one record came out of this deal. Sure would be nice to see Telma surface here. Anyone know where she is at these days? Give me a clue and I will go after her.

Ian...my wheels have been turning pal. What your dreaming about could become a reality down the road a bit.Bobby Eli has been a real inspiration and he and I are kicking all sorts of possibilities around. And you have to know how Bobby and I are and what we will do to accomplish things we think are important.

By DeAnne (24.120.38.66 - 24.120.38.66) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 01:31 am:

Telma moved to California to do Television roles and movies. I believe that we could find her on the internet through her career as an actress.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:05 am:

DeAnne,
I am aware of Telma's successful acting career.
She more than likely is still in California.

By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:50 am:

I recorded the vocals for "It's A Shame." I'm pretty sure that was Stevie playing bass on a keyboard and not Jamerson! I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

By drums (208.251.209.82 - 208.251.209.82) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 01:13 pm:

Hello all again!!

First, I again am amazed at this site! I am learning who the people are that recorded the music that influenced my playing today!!

Second, what would it take to get the guys together for a TSOP/MFSB/Motown reunion?? Im sure that whatever the logistics are, they can be worked out. Maybe if they got Sinbad,Tom Joyner,Gamble & Huff,or The Detroit and Philly Radio stations to support a comeback for them millions of people who they influenced would want to see it!! (I know that I would!! )

Third, Bob!! I didnt know that you engineered and recorded "It's a Shame"! Outstanding!!

To everyone on this board, we need to get these guys together and document one of the greatest music making entities of all time!! Any ideas are welcome!!

Daren Metz

By Phillysoulman (205.188.199.54 - 205.188.199.54) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:39 pm:

It wouldn't be a comeback because we never really went away!! The spirit of our music is ever-present for all generations to enjoy and document. I am glad there are those of the Detroit-Philly connection who are still with us and what a session it would be. Just the Babbitt/ Andrew/MFSB union that we did in the 70s was pure magic, so just imagine what would transpire if all the groove survivors reunited!!!!

As they say in Mobville "forgeddabotit!!!!"

By Rich (162.33.234.41 - 162.33.234.41) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:45 pm:

Again I apologize to Dave from Glasgow for failing to stay on point with the site's theme but Babbit's "who's playing bass" post has got me thinking. Story Time: Billy Nelson recruited Eddie Hazel to join the Parliaments rhythm section on August of 1967. About a month later they picked up Tiki Fulwood at the Uptown in Philly. A few months after that those three decided to become their own group Funkadelic. But a year later they all left Detroit. Tiki went to work for Tyrone Davis. Eddie & Billy tried a thing called Sparky & the Pimpadelics (with Brad Innis & Herb Sparkman) that didn't work-out. Billy went to work for Bill Doggett. And Eddie went back to Detroit to put a live "Funkadelic" band together while studio musicians (Babbitt, Monette, Coffey, Hunter, Van Dyke & Andrew Smith) played on the the sessions for 6 of the albums 7 tracks (Music for My Mother was already done). Tracks like What is Soul & Mommy What's a Funkadelic were jams Billy & Eddie put together in rehearsals during the summer of '68. GC took the entire writing credit for both! Studio musicians were used because there was NO band at the time, not because they couldn't play. Anyhow, when Eddie Hazel returned to Detroit in early '69 he brought Tawl Ross with him from Plainfield to play bass. They picked up Mickey Atkins (organ) and drummer Zachary Frazier (or Slater) from the 20 Grand Lounge house band. But the band never really clicked like before. GC begged Billy to come back and sort out the band as the album was being completed. Billy took bass, Tawl moved over to rhythm, Tiki agreed to come back and Billy recruited Bernie Worrell from Plainfield. Billy, Eddie, Tiki, Tawl & Bernie became the band. Those are the five pictured on the back of the first album even though they played on little of it. Frazier-Slater was free to go join McKinley Jackson's Politicians where he was the drummer on a number of H-D-H & Motown sessions through the mid-70's. I've never heard any more about Mickey Atkins. Funkadelic stayed intact for about two years recording Free Your Mind & Maggot Brain as well as Parliament's Osmium album & their singles Red Hot Mama & Breakdown for Invictus (uncredited until a few years back), they were also recorded on most of the sessions for Ruth Copeland's two Invictus albums, although others did participate. Again uncredited until just a couple of years ago. Its often claimed that the Parliaments sang on Free Your Mind & Maggot Brain but Funkadelic did their own lead vocals. In the fall of '71 it ended, period! Tawl left the group, Tiki Left the group. Billy & Eddie quit to go work for Motown. Eddie was there for about seven years, Billy over 10. Funkadelic's '72 follow-up "America Eats its Young" was in part recorded from rehearsal tapes by the made original band.

While at Motown Billy & Eddie can be heard on the "finished" recordings by so many well known artists and on so many hit records. Norman Whitfield loved Funkadelic especially Billy and used him on tons of sessions from '71 - '83. Norman never saw fit to give Billy a single credit until the Tempts Back to the Basics LP in '83!! 12 Years!! The only proof we have that Billy played Bass on Car Wash is that his name is listed at the end of the movie. But he plays bass on nearly every Rose Royce track from the film. Norman used Billy & Eddie on Undisputed Truth & Temptations albums all the time. But it wasn't until the Jeffrey Bowen produced A Song for You & Wings of Love LPs (as well as Bonnie Pointer's '78 solo LP) when they got FINALLY got credit. Billy got that bass sound on Happy People & Shakey Ground by plugging directly into the mixing board. The sound was so out-front that they had to give him credit. Billy is all over the Commodores stuff. He had to play a majority of the bass lines on their first three albums (Machine Gun, Caught in the Act & Mobvin On). After that, Billy had to often teach Ron LaPread the bass-lines to songs like Brick House note for note, and Ron gets a writing credit!! LaPread even went as far as to go out and get himself a BC Rich bass like Billy's to try to copy "his own" sound. They either recorded or re-recorded the bass & guitar parts on so many sessions. Yet, so many think that the only thing they played on was A Song for You. Of course who'd believe they're on Love Machine, Eddie Kendricks, Smokey Robinson, Rose Banks, Jackson 5ive, Willie Hutch, etc. Same thing at Invictus after the earlier studio guys went either east or west. Guys like Billy, Eddie, Bernie & Donald Baldwin stepped-in and played on a lot of sessions recorded for Invictus during '73 & '74 including the Chairman of the Board's Skin I'm In LP which features the hit Finder's Keepers. Again, no credit. I spoke to Billy about 10 days ago, and the bruh is still working and struggling. We have a very good mutual friend who was present at many of the sessions that Billy played on including just about all of the Commodores sessions. (professionally speaking) I've been asked to look into a few "financial" matters and I KNOW EXACTLY how much Billy has made from residuals & Royalties for all his contributions to P-Funk, Invictus & Motown. So I got nothing but empathy for Bob Babbitt & so many other musicians who've added so much to the enjoyment of our lives because, other than a band salary while on tour and the session fees they were paid 25-30-35 years ago MOST of these players NEVER got paid anything else. And they don't have the face or name recognition to trade-on, like singers or vocal groups. They only have their resume's, which appear to be a "pack of lies" on the surface because there's no credit to be found hardly anywhere.

For anyone who got this far, sorry to go on, story hour is over, and its was a sad story at that. OK, back to the 60's
Peace

By phillysoulman (205.188.199.54 - 205.188.199.54) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 03:43 pm:

I BEG TO DIFFER ON THE CAR WASH THING.
LEQUINT " DUKE" JOB, THE BASS PLAYED FROM ROSE ROYCE PLAYED IT HIMSELF, AS DID THE REST OF THE BAND. I HAVE PRDUCED THEM BEFORE AND THEY ARE VERY ACCOMPLISHED MUSICIANS, THEY WERE ONCE EDWIN STARR'S LIVE BACKUP BAND. ALSO, IT WAS BABBITT ON BALL IT'S AMAZING HOW STUFF BECOMES URBAN LEGEND>OF CONFUSION

By phillysoulman (205.188.199.54 - 205.188.199.54) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 03:59 pm:

There wa an instrument called the Coral Electric Sitar that was "invented" by an early N.Y.C. session guitarist named Vinny Bell.
He was a very early user of contraptions ,most of which he "invented" and subsequently manufacured
en masse by varios companies.
In the late sixties and during the early to mid sevetiies, this sound was used with success on many Philly recordings,including You make me feel brand new, Betcha by golly wow,and various other Stylistics and Blue Magic records ,on all of which I was the one playing those parts. On Band of gold,it was Dennis Coffey on Hooked on a feeling by BJ Thomas and The Letter by The Box tops, it was Reggie Young in Memphis.
On allof those songs and many more using that sound, Vinny Bell gave homself credit, even telling me that it was him!!!! Can you believe that?????? A&R studios in NYC said that Band of gold ws done there with NY musicians!!!
So we must now join forces and clear up all those lies and let the world know the real deal.

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:13 pm:

Bobby

Would that be the instrument also featured on Didn't I Blow Your Mind This Time? If so, you've just answered a question that's bugged me for years!

By drums (208.251.209.82 - 208.251.209.82) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 05:03 pm:

Hi Again Mr. Eli!!

You got me again!!!

Anyway, first did you get my email?

Second, who were the musicians on the "Band of Gold " sessions

And last, do you remember who engineered that?

Daren Metz

By phillysoulman (64.12.102.169 - 64.12.102.169) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 07:32 pm:

RITCHIE, YEP. THATS ME!!

DAREN,RALPH TERRANA WOULD KNOW THE BAND OF GOLD THING AS IT WAS DONE AT T.S. I KNOW THAT BABBITT IS ON BASS AND DENNIS COFFEY IS ON THE SITAR THING. AS FAR AS DRUMS I AM NOT SURE ALTHOUGH SOMETHING TELLS ME ITS ANDREW SMITH.

By John Lester (213.1.129.43 - 213.1.129.43) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 08:59 pm:

Who else has their mouth just wide open reading all this...

I feel like a fly on the wall......and I LOVE IT!

By Rich (152.163.201.56 - 152.163.201.56) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:16 pm:

No doubt Duke Jobe can make his bass sing, no disrespect. I was told directly by people who were there. They were able to recount numerous details about the session including the studio where it was done. Spacey T (Stacey Singleton) currently of Fishbone was the one who weighed in with confirmation and mentioned seeing Billy's name listed in the Movie credits. And so it goes ... Like the Talking Heads story Babbitt told. Who'd believe it if you weren't there or got it direct with confirmation. You know what you do & smile. Bein' fair to Duke, nobody would fuss him out for failing to mention he didn't play on their biggest hit. Just hush yo mouf & hope nobody ask.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 09:27 pm:

I'm sending Mike Theodore an e-mail to see if he will clear up the mystery of Telma and Joyce and the group.

By Ian W (213.122.83.82 - 213.122.83.82) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:06 pm:

Ralph

When your project gets underway, I'll be first in the queue for a copy!

Ian

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:14 pm:

Thanks Ian,
I have a couple of possibilities I'm kicking around.

By Clay McMurray (66.73.177.45 - 66.73.177.45) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 11:26 am:

Bobby's right about the Car Wash Bass player being(Duke)
I was there coordinating the sessions and engineering with Steve Smith, Lenard Jackson and Whitfield. Rose Royce played on most everything they recorded. Duke eventually married Whitfields niece. There's a million stories lurking about the Rolls Royce era. Just like the fact that I was guy who named "The Undisputed Truth" I'll stand mute on these subjects.

By phillysoulman (205.188.198.31 - 205.188.198.31) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 01:44 pm:

Clay,

Thank you for confirming what is the real deal.
No disrespect to anyone but personally, I am growing tired of so-called "knowledgable historians" with so called "first han" information when in fact, we are first hand having been on the set. It is just like the Carol kaye imaginary grandiose positioning ,placing herself in the center of the very heart and soul of the sound of young America and once again taking credit away from hard working , talented Black Americans. History sure does repeat itself doesn't it??

Asd far as Tiki goes, he was introduced to the
future P- funk scene by none other than yours truly here while on a gig at the 20 grand in Detroit with the Vibrations!! Edddie Hazel took to him immediately and in fact told me about the new idea that he had called "FUNKADELIC"

Once again, no disrespect, but I WAS THERE!!!!!

By John Lester (213.122.201.175 - 213.122.201.175) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 02:11 pm:

Clay..dont you dare stay mute on this site...and Bobby, please keep putting the record straight.

New UK compilation due on March 4...on the Miracles (includes the City of Angels LP), Undisputed Truth, Originals......plus David Ruffin and Eddie Kendricks and a various artists hard to find compilation.

By Mike Theodore (68.39.42.114 - 68.39.42.114) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 04:53 pm:

Hey Ralph got your E mail and finally found the question. Yes Thelma,Joyce , Eric and Rockwell were a group. We named them The Nu-People.
We had one release on them on Venture Records.
The song was " I'd Be Nowhere Today". It was a hot track and still sounds good today. I have not heard from Thelma or Joyce since I lived in LA quite a few years ago.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 05:01 pm:

Mike,
Good hearing from you. Thanks for clearing this one up.

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 05:57 pm:

thanks for coming on the forum mike.

i recall reading that telma was working in vegas in the mid nineties.

By phillysoulman (205.188.198.59 - 205.188.198.59) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 09:14 pm:

Hey mike, What ever happened to the little guy Cecil Barker, with the money who backed Venture Records?? I remember going to meet with him around 1980, down in Maryland near the N.A.S.A.headquarters. I believe that he was in the aero-space buisness. He reminded me of George Jefferson!!!! There was a group called Creme d' Cocoa that he wanted me to produce, but with all his bucks, he was a cheap m****r***k*r so it never came off at that time. I know Tony Camillo
fronted the operation but with Barker's cash!!!

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 09:23 pm:

Bobby,

Excuse me butting in - I think Mike's talking
about earlier Venture label. The Nu People's
label was an offshoot of MGM - they wanted a
soul label and got Mickey Stevenson to run it when he left Motown. There's quite a lot of Motowners with credits on Venture - Clarence
Paul, Stephen Bowden, Leon Ware, Willie Hutch
and others. There was a subsidiary (?) label
called Maverick which had some interesting
records, Dee Dee Gartrell for one ( the wife
of the Mighty HAnnibal )

By phillysoulman (205.188.199.179 - 205.188.199.179) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 02:22 am:

Davie,

Thanks for clarifying!!Now I do remember that one.
I seemed to have forgotten about the "Motown"connection there.
The reason that I had mentioned the other one is because Cecil Barker had actually given Tony Camillo who produced Gladys on Midnight Train... and Youre the best thing... the cash for the studio and the label so I thought that it was that connection

By detroit gal (205.188.199.53 - 205.188.199.53) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 05:22 am:

fyi Telma keeps in touch with the hometown; back during Detroit 300 last summer, when there was controversy over not enough Motown acts being booked for the concerts, she called the Detroit News and was quoted as saying she was ticked!

By detroit gal (205.188.199.53 - 205.188.199.53) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 05:23 am:

p.s. I'm stunned to read all these stories, although I've been fortunate enough to be in a room with a few Funks, and it's hard to figure out who to listen to, they're so interesting.

Keep it up! And David, this site is really cooking now!

By John Lester (213.122.197.61 - 213.122.197.61) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 08:51 am:

detroitgal

STUNNED is just one of the words that comes to mind!!

LOL

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 12:29 pm:

hi detroit gal.

welcome to the forum.

yes, we;ve got a bit of momentum going and it's a good crowd that's in here.

btw john posted a pic of himself with cal street at the roostertail. (use the word roostertail in the search forum function).

i think you were there that night?

anyway please hang in here i know you've met quite a few people that we're interested in.

By Mike Theodore (68.39.42.114 - 68.39.42.114) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 03:10 pm:

Hi Bobby
David is right. Venture was a label run by Mickey Stevenson. We had a deal through Clarence Avant
and did several projects for Venture/Mavrick Records.

By Clay McMurray (66.73.181.16 - 66.73.181.16) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 03:30 pm:

What memories,
I was regional promotion man for Venture record back then and Warren Lanier was my Boss,we only a few hit records and the biggest one that I can remember promoting across country was a record called:Ain't That A Funky Way To Treat Somebody"
by Calvin Arnold. Some of the other folks around then were Tom Nickson(Cheif Engineer)Dickie Cooper,The Major 4, The Naturals,Leon Ware,to name a few. Small world when you cut it open. LOL

By detroit gal (152.163.205.79 - 152.163.205.79) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 06:35 pm:

David,

Yeah I was there at the Roostertail the night Cal and the Velvelettes performed. It was a special Women of Motown night.

And hi to Bob Babbitt, whom I met while the Funks were rehearsing for the movie.

I didn't realize Bob was involved with "It's A Shame," one of the best singles ever. I can't get that tune out of my head now, but that isn't a bad thing.

By John Lester (213.122.194.200 - 213.122.194.200) on Sunday, February 17, 2002 - 10:35 pm:

Detroit Gal

I was there at the Roostertail too that night...lots and lots of Ladies of Motown there that night...a dream night for me

I am hoping there will be a Men of Motown night sometime in the future.

By BOB BABBITT (205.188.199.178 - 205.188.199.178) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 03:23 am:

HEY MO-FU�S.......BEEN CHECKING THRU THE POSTED MESSAGES AND HERE IS SOME
INFO ON SEVERAL OF THE QUESTIONS ASKED OR COMMENTS MADE...........................
�KISS AND SAY GOODBYE� ...MANHATTAN'S..... IF YOU READ THE �WHO�S PLAYING BASS�
AND THEN READ RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES A RESPONSE BY ONE OF OUR TOP MUSICIAN, WRITER, AND PRODUCER�S WHO HAS BEEN POSTING SOME OF THE MOST INFORMATIVE MESSAGES ON THIS SITE, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE READ THAT IN FACT HE WAS INVOLVED IN A RE-CUT SESSION FOR THAT SONG.........OUR OWN PHILLYSOULMAN......
BOBBY ELI!!! NOW YOU SEE WHAT I�M TALKING ABOUT...... WOW!! BOBBY AND I NEED TO TALK ON THE PHONE ABOUT THIS ONE AND COMPARE NOTES......ONE THING THAT I DID NOT MENTION ABOUT THAT RECORD AND THE RECORD THAT BOBBY WROTE �JUST DON�T WANT TO BE LONELY� IS THAT AT SOME POINT IN TIME AFTER THOSE RECORDS BECAME HITS ONCE AGAIN THE DOOR BELL RANG, THERE WAS A SINGLE GOLD RECORD FOR �KISS AND SAY GOODBYE� AND THEN THERE WAS A SECOND TIME AND A GOLD RECORD FOR THE ALBUM....THE SAME THING HAPPENED FOR �JUST DON�T WANT TO BE LONELY�...... A GOLD RECORD FOR THE SINGLE!!! OTHER RECORDS I PRODUCED IN DETROIT...........DANNY WOODS....�COME AND DANCE PART ONE� AND �PART TWO�.....�TO BE LOVED�.....AND A RECORD TITLED �SIMPLE PRAYER� THAT INFURIATED THE PRESIDENT OF MERCURY, SMASH RECORDS AT THAT TIME (I DON�T REMEMBER HIS NAME), BECAUSE DANNY SANG THE PRAYER �NOW I LAY ME DOWN TO SLEEP� IN THE SONG, THE PRESIDENT SAID �WE DON�T WANT NO RELIGIOUS RECORDS RECORDED HERE�... HE THEN PROCEEDED TO RELEASE DANNY FROM THE LABEL?? BY THE WAY THOSE SESSIONS WERE MCKINLEY JACKSON�S FIRST STRING ARRANGEMENTS AND HE DID A GREAT JOB!!!!!!!!!!!! OTHER RECORDS WERE �ROLY POLY MICKEY LOLICH�...A LOCAL RECORD ABOUT THE DETROIT TIGERS WINNING THE 1968 WORLD SERIES........NORMAN SANDS PRODUCTIONS WAS TOLD THAT THIS RECORD HAD SOLD OVER 100,000 COPIES AND WE COULD HARDLY WAIT FOR THE ROYALTY CHECK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! AFTER WAITING 7 OR 8 MONTHS AND NO ROYALTY CHECK WE CALLED THE DISTRIBUTOR WHO HAD ORIGINALLY GAVE US THE INFO ON THE SALES.....GUESS WHAT HE TOLD US THEN???? WHEN YOU ASKED ABOUT THE SALES OF THE RECORD BEFORE BY MISTAKE WE GAVE YOU SALES FIGURES FOR ANOTHER RECORD, AND AS FAR AS THE RECORD �ROLY POLY MICKEY LOLICH� THERE WERE MORE RETURNS THEN RECORDS THAT THEY HAD SENT OUT!!!!! WE KNEW THAT WAS A LIE BECAUSE WHILE THE RECORD WAS BEING PLAYED ON THE RADIO WE WERE GOING TO RECORD SHOPS IN DETROIT ( AS WELL AS KNOWING SOME OWNERS), AND ASKING ABOUT THE SALES OF THE RECORD, WE WHERE TOLD THAT IT WAS SELLING!!!! F--K ME!!!!!!!!! THE �SCORPION� ALBUM.......TOWER RECORDS.... SELF CONTAINED GROUP, ALL OF THE SESSIONS WERE RECORDED AT TERA SHIRMA (NEW STUDIO) ANDREW SMITH, RAY MONETTE, MYSELF AND VOCALIST MIKE CAMPBELL...THE COMPANY HAD STARTED A MAJOR PUSH ON THIS GROUP, BUT THE WEEK AFTER THEY RELEASED THE ALBUM THEY FIRED EVERYONE AT THE LABEL WHO WERE INTO THE SCORPION GROUP AND DEFUNCT THE LABEL, THE ONLY GROUP THEY HAD ASSIGNED TO ANOTHER LABEL WAS �PINK FLOYD�...�SCORPION� WAS RELEASED FROM TOWER AND THEN SIGNED WITH MOTOWN WHERE WE STARTED RECORDING SOME THINGS ON THE GROUP.... THEN RARE EARTH OFFERED RAY MONETTE A JOB TO BE THEIR GUITAR PLAYER...THAT STOPPED US UNTIL WE COULD FIND A REPLACEMENT....I THINK THE FIRST TRACKS WE RECORDED WITH RAY THAT RALPH TERRANA WAS ALSO INVOLVED IN THE PRODUCTION, AND WHEN RAY WENT WITH THE RARE EARTH GROUP RALPH ENDED UP USING THE TRACKS AND OVERDUBBED STONEY AND MEATLOAF ON THEM.....THEN ONE WEEK I WAS A SUB IN A FRIEND�S BAND IN A LOCAL CLUB AND THE REGULAR GUITAR PLAYER GOT SICK ONE NIGHT AND GUITARIST PAUL WARREN (16 YEARS OLD) PLAYED THAT NIGHT........ ............. I WAS BLOWN AWAY!!! I BROUGHT PAUL TO MOTOWN TO REPLACE RAY AND RECORD WITH SCORPION..... WE ONLY RECORDED A FEW THINGS WITH PAUL AS THE COMPANY WAS STARTING ITS EXODUS, AND THE PRODUCERS WHO WERE STILL AT MOTOWN IN DETROIT ALSO STARTED USING PAUL( SOLO ON �PAPA WAS A ROLLING STONE)...THEN BARRETT STRONG STARTED A SELF CONTAINED GROUP AND ASKED ANDREW SMITH, PAUL WARREN, EDDIE WILLIS AND MYSELF TO BE IN THE GROUP.. BARRETT PLAYED KEYBOARDS....WE HAD SEVERAL REHEARSALS BUT I THINK ANDREW AND I MADE THE DECISION TO MOVE TO THE EAST COAST AT THAT TIME AND I DON�T KNOW IF BARRETT PURSUED THE GROUP THING???? SAME TIME I WAS INVOLVED IN PRODUCTION ON A TITO JACKSON INSTRUMENTAL RECORD AND A MIKE CAMPBELL SOLO ALBUM, I WAS ALSO PRODUCING MY OWN INSTRUMENTAL ALBUM......NO F----N� RELEASE�S!!!!!!!!!!!! ALSO THERE WERE SOME OTHER OF NORMAN SANDS ARTIST THAT I PRODUCED, BUT NO MAJOR RECORDS..... THOSE ARTIST ALONG WITH DANNY WOODS WERE SIGNED TO NORMANS PRODUCTION COMPANY AND THAT�S WHEN I DISCOVERED THE FORMULA FOR GETTING A RECORD PLAYED...A FORMULA THAT WE WERE NOT PREPAID errrrrrra PREPARED FOR!!!! LABARON TAYLOR....THE FIRST SESSION I DID AT GOLDEN WORLD FOR ED WINGATE, LABARON WAS THE PRODUCER ..ARTIST WAS EDWIN STARR. .THE RECORD WAS �AGENT OO SOUL�... THE DARRELL BANKS RECORDS THAT I PLAYED ON WERE ALSO RECORDED AT GOLDEN WORLD AND LABARON WAS THE PRODUCER (DON DAVIS MAY HAVE BEEN CO-PRODUCING), I THINK DON AND LABARON DID THE JJ BARNES RECORDS....THE ONE I REMEMBER THAT WAS A BIG RECORD FOR JJ WAS �REAL HUMDINGER�( GOLDEN WORLD).....THEY ALSO DID SOME IF NOT ALL OF THE PARLIAMENT RECORDS, AND ALL OF THE REVILOT RECORDS AT GOLDEN WORLD, UNITED SOUND AND I THINK SOME AT TERA SHIRMA, WHEN I MOVED TO THE EAST COAST LABARON WAS THE A&R DIRECTOR FOR R&B AT ATLANTIC RECORDS AND AFTER ANDREW SMITH AND I RECORDED �MIDNIGHT TRAIN TO GEORGIA� LABARON CALLED ANDREW AND I TO START WORKING FOR HIM IN PHILADELPHIA WHERE HE WAS PRODUCING WITH TONY BELL ( THOM�S BROTHER) AND PHIL HURTT....THIS EVENTUALLY LED TO RECORDING WITH THOM BELL IN PHILADELPHIA, LABARON WAS ALSO INTERESTED IN THE INSTRUMENTAL ALBUM I RECODED AT MOTOWN TO RELEASE ON ATLANTIC (IT WAS NOT TOTALLY DONE WHEN I LEFT DETROIT)....HE TOLD ME TO CALL MOTOWN AND TELL THEM THAT I WANTED TO BUY THE TAPES AND NOT TO MENTION ATLANTIC WAS INTERESTED BECAUSE THEY WOULD ASK FOR MORE MONEY, WELL, MOTOWN SENT ME A LETTER SAYING THAT THEY WERE NOT INTERESTED IN SELLING ME THE ALBUM...AND SOON AFTER THAT THEY SENT ME A STATEMENT TELLING ME HOW MUCH I OWED THEM FOR THE RECORDING COST.... IT�S BEEN SITTING IN F----N� STORAGE FOR 30 F----N� YEARS...THEY WERE SUPPOSE TO RELEASE A SINGLE, BUT THE RELEASE DAY WENT BY AND THEY GAVE ME A COCK AND BULL STORY... SO, ALONG WITH THE JEFF BECK SAGA, REASON NUMBER ONE... THAT WAS REASON NUMBER TWO THAT I DID NOT GO TO THE WEST COAST!!!!! IT TOOK ONE YEAR TO GET OUT OF MY CONTRACT WITH MOTOWN (A LAWYER FROM NEW JERSEY WAS RECOMMENDED TO ME... I THINK HIS NAME WAS VITO OR GUIDO SOMETHING OR THE OTHER)...........BACK TO THE FUTURE.....MAYBE SOMEONE CAN HELP ME LOCATE A FEW OF THE RECORD�S THAT I HAD PLAYED ON IN DETROIT......... �I�M INTO SOMETHING I CAN�T SHAKE IT LOOSE� BY PAT LEWIS...LABEL. .REVILOT (GOLDEN WORLD)....�COMPETITION AIN�T NOTHIN� YA�ALL�......LITTLE CARL CARLTON...LABEL??? (UNITED SOUND) ....�SHOWTIME� ..DETROIT EMERALDS, LABEL...WINGATE OR RIC-TIC (GOLDEN WORLD).......OR ANY OF THEIR SONGS.....�REAL HUMDINGER�... AND ALSO A BEATLE COVER (COULD HAVE BEEN �DAY TRIPPER�)...JJ BARNES...LABEL ..WINGATE OR RIC-TIC....... . (GOLDEN WORLD)...............STAND BY ME� SPYDER TURNER, LABEL..?????
(TERA SHIRMA ORIGINAL STUDIO). ..... �A TOAST TO YOU�...EMANUAL LASKEY LABEL...???? (TERA SHIRMA ORIGINAL STUDIO)............... �BACKSTREET�. .....EDWIN STARR, LABEL...WINGATE OR RIC-TIC (GOLDEN WORLD)...........�I LOVE YOU 1000 TIMES�............ PLATTERS....LABEL...???? (GOLDEN WORLD)........PAC 3....THERE WERE A NUMEROUS AMOUNT OF SESSIONS GOING ON AT PAC 3...I REMEMBER PRODUCERS FROM NEW YORK, L.A. AND FROM DOWN SOUTH COMING IN AND RECORDING THERE....I KNOW WE RECORDED A TOP 10 GLADYS KNIGHT RECORD THERE �FEEL A SONG IN MY HEART� WITH PRODUCER TONY CAMILLO FOR BUDDAH RECORDS, WHEN THE SPINNERS LEFT MOTOWN THEY RECORDED QUITE A FEW SESSIONS THERE...PAUL ANKA RECORDED ONE OF HIS BIG HIT�S THERE...I DON�T REMEMBER DOING THAT SESSION??? I DID RECORD THE �ROLY POLY MICKEY LOLICH� RECORD THERE... I KNOW MIKE THEODORE AND DENNIS COFFEY RECORDED A TON OF RECORDS THERE, OVER THE LAST TWO OR THREE YEARS I HAVE PERSONALLY BEEN THERE TO RECORD SEVERAL PROJECTS AND ALL IS WELL WITH RICHARD BECKER AND THE STUDIO SOUNDS GREAT!!!! HE HAS A NEW ROOM NEXT DOOR TO THE GARAGE WHICH IS THE ORIGINAL STUDIO.........I WAS THERE FOUR OR FIVE DAYS RECORDING IN THE NEW ROOM, AT THE SAME TIME A RAP RECORD COMPANY WAS IN THE GARAGE STUDIO RECORDING NON-STOP 24 HOURS A DAY EVERYDAY I WAS THERE...ARTIE FIELDS STUDIO....... I SEEM TO REMEMBER DOING QUITE A FEW RECORD SESSIONS THERE, I THINK THAT THE BIGGEST PERCENTAGE OF WORK DONE THERE WERE COMMERCIALS FOR AD AGENCIES........ONE SESSION THAT I DO REMEMBER THERE WAS WHEN ARTIE HAD BROUGHT IN CHARLEY CALLELO (ONE OF THE TOP ARRANGER�S AND PRODUCER�S) ALONG WITH SESSION GUITARIST DAVE SPINNOZA FROM NEW YORK....EARL VAN DYKE WAS THE PIANO PLAYER AND URIEL JONES WAS THE DRUMMER ALONG WITH MYSELF ON BASS..........WELL THE TIME THEY CAME TO DETROIT TO RECORD THOSE SESSION�S THE BASEBALL PLAYOFFS WERE ON TV AND EARL WAS A BASEBALL FANATIC!! HE BROUGHT A TV SET WITH HIM TO ARTIE�S STUDIO AND SET IT ON TOP IF THE PIANO TO WATCH THE GAMES WHILE WE WERE RECORDING... I DON�T KNOW WHAT THOSE GUY�S MUST HAVE THOUGHT BUT NO BODY EVER SAID A WORD TO
EARL..............NOT EVEN ARTIE!!!!!!!! GM STUDIOS ALSO DID A LOT OF RECORDING, THE DENNIS COFFEY INSTRUMENTAL ALBUMS INCLUDING THE HIT �SCORPIO� WERE RECORDED THERE........... I ALSO REMEMBER DOING SOME HOLLAND DOZIER AND HOLLAND SESSIONS THERE (I THINK THAT WAS BEFORE THEY RECORDED AT TERA SHIRMA) ..IN FACT THEY FLEW THOM BELL FROM PHILADELPHIA TO PLAY PIANO ON A FEW OF THEIR SESSIONS.....THAT IS WHERE I FIRST MET HIM!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS ALSO WHERE ARIF MARDIN CAME FROM NEW YORK TO RECORD, AND AT THAT TIME HE WAS ONE OF THE EAST COAST PRODUCERS WHO TOLD ME THAT I SHOULD CONSIDER MOVING TO THE NEW YORK AREA.....I ALSO DID A LOT OF WORK WITH DAVE HAMILTON WHO HAD HIS OWN STUDIO, DANNY DALLAS (ONE OF THE FIRST RECORDING ENGINEERS IN DETROIT)
WHO HAD WORKED AT SPECIALTY RECORDING STUDIO, UNITED SOUND AND HAD HIS OWN STUDIO..... AND ALSO A STUDIO WHERE A LOT OF SESSIONS WERE RECORDED WAS B. A. STARR...I THINK THAT ED WOLFRUM, MOTOWN ENGINEER ALSO WORKED THERE, ALSO I BELIEVE THAT THE OWNER OF THE STUDIO WAS DICK SCOTT.. WHO LATER BECAME THE MANAGER OF SEVERAL HIT GROUPS. .ONE OF THEM BEING �NEW KIDS ON THE BLOCK�...... PLATTERS.............PRODUCER LUTHER DIXON CAME TO DETROIT TO RECORD AND WORKED AT GOLDEN WORLD STUDIOS......WE RECORDED THE SONGS �WITH THIS RING� AND �I LOVE YOU 1000 TIMES�......THE SESSIONS WERE RECORDED AT 3:00 AM IN THE MORNING AND I REMEMBER BENNY BENJAMIN PLAYING DRUMS AND EITHER POPCORN WYLIE OR JOHNNY GRIFFITH ON PIANO... I REMEMBER GUITARIST DON DAVIS ON �I LOVE YOU 1000 TIMES� BUT I THINK EDDIE WILLIS WAS ON �WITH THIS RING�????? OTHER ARTIST WE RECORDED FOR LUTHER DIXON AT GOLDEN WORLD...ERTHA KITT...INEZ FOX....THERE WERE MORE, I CAN�T SEEM TO RECALL THE NAMES OF THE ARTIST???? THE ONE THING I WANT TO TELL YOU IS ABOUT THE �I LOVE YOU 1000 TIMES� SESSION...THE PLATTERS WERE IN TOWN WORKING AT ONE OF THE BIGGEST CLUBS ..I THINK IT WAS A 10 DAY ENGAGEMENT....NOW THE CLUB WAS IN DEARBORN, MICHIGAN AND AT THAT TIME NO BLACKS COULD LIVE IN DEARBORN AND IT WAS REALLY NOT A PLACE FOR THEM TO BE OR HANG OUT..I REMEMBER NORMAN SANDS OFFICE WAS IN DEARBORN AND WHEN THE SCORPION GROUP STARTED REHEARSING AND WRITING WE USED THE OFFICE AND WE HAD TO SOMETIMES SNEAK ANDREW SMITH INTO THE BUILDING!!! BACK TO THE PLATTER�S.. NOW, THE PLATTERS HIRED A BAND TO BACK THEM UP AND IN THIS BAND WAS JAMERSON!!!!!!!!!!! BEING A DANGEROUS LOCATION FOR BLACKS JAMERSON CARRIED HIS GUN WITH HIM EVERY NIGHT THAT HE PLAYED WITH THE PLATTERS.........THE NIGHT THAT I WENT TO GOLDEN WORLD TO RECORD THE �I LOVE YOU 1000 TIMES� SESSION WHEN I GOT THERE JAMERSON WAS ALSO THERE!! HE WAS SITTING PLAYING AT THE ORGAN...AS I WALKED IN THE STUDIO AREA I WENT STRAIGHT WITH BASS IN HAND TO THE ORGAN TO SAY HI AND HE LOOKED AT ME AND SAID I�M PLAYING ON THIS SESSION...... AS HE WAS TELLING ME THIS HE KIND OF LEANED TO THE SIDE TO FACE ME.....HIS JACKET WAS OPEN AND IT SLIPPED BACK JUST ENOUGH FOR ME TO SEE HIS GUN...... WHOA..........F--K ME..........I LOOKED AT HIM AND SAID.. �YEAH, YOUR PLAYING ON THIS SESSION� AND I TURNED AWAY FROM HIM AND HEADED FOR THE DOOR TO GET OUT OF THERE.......WELL, LUTHER GRABBED ME AND SAID DON�T WORRY JAMERSON IS GOING HOME AND YOU ARE PLAYING THE SESSION....SCARY S--T....................................... KENNY GAMBLE....A PHILADELPHIA DISK JOCKEY, JIMMY BISHOP, CAME SEVERAL TIMES TO RECORD AT GOLDEN WORLD AND KENNY GAMBLE WAS ONE OF THE ARTIST HE BROUGHT TO DETROIT......I DON�T REMEMBER ANY OF THE SONGS WE RECORDED???? HARRY BALK AND BARNEY �DUKE� BROWNER.......HARRY HAD HUGE SUCCESS PRODUCING DELL SHANNON, JOHNNY AND THE HURRICANES, AND THE BIG HIT �WHAT�S YOUR NAME� BY DON AND JUAN.....
DURING THAT TIME I WAS DOING SOME SESSIONS FOR HARRY AND AT THE SAME TIME I WAS IN THE GROUP THE ROYALTONES WHO HAD SEVERAL INSTRUMENTAL CHART RECORDS......TWO OF THEM �POOR BOY� AND �FLAMINGO EXPRESS� WERE IN THE TOP 10 POP CHARTS....NOW THAT GROUP (DENNIS COFFEY WAS ALSO IN THE GROUP) SIGNED WITH HARRY�S COMPANY AND NOT ONLY DID WE RECORD A NUMEROUS AMOUNT OF INSTRUMENTALS, THAT INCLUDED A TOP CHARTED RECORD� OUR FADED LOVE�.......WE BECAME DELL SHANNON�S BACKUP STUDIO BAND FOR HIS SECOND WAVE OF HITS WHICH INCLUDED.. �KEEP SEARCHIN�... �HANDY MAN�....�LITTLE TOWN FLIRT�.....I GO TO PIECES�......�STRANGER IN TOWN�....�DO YOU WANT TO DANCE.. ALL OF THESE RECORDS WERE RECORDED AT BELL SOUND IN NEW YORK.........BUT WE RECORDED THE �DELL SHANNON SINGS HANK WILLIAMS� ALBUM AT UNITED SOUND IN DETROIT AND WHEN GOLDEN WORLD OPENED IN DETROIT DELL STARTED TO RECORD THERE AND HARRY PRODUCED SOME OF HIS OTHER ACTS THERE.... WHEN HARRY STARTED RECORDING AT GOLDEN WORLD ED WINGATE KEPT SEEING ME COME IN THERE AND ONE DAY ASKED ME IF I WOULD LIKE TO RECORD FOR HIM....I SAW A MUSICIAN LIST IN ONE OF THE WRITERS ROOMS WITH 7 OR 8 BASS PLAYERS ON IT, JAMERSON�S NAME WAS ON TOP...I THOUGHT S--T.... I�LL NEVER WORK THAT MUCH HERE...... BUT I ENDED UP GETTING A COT TO SLEEP ON BECAUSE OF THE ROUND THE CLOCK SESSIONS!!!!!! DUKE BROWNER PRODUCED FOR HARRY�S COMPANY AND WAS CONSTANTLY IN THE STUDIO RECORDING THE BLACK ACTS SIGNED TO HARRY�S COMPANY ...I REMEMBER DUKE AS BEING A TOP NOTCH PRODUCER AND WRITER ON TOP OF HIS GAME ALL OF THE TIME!!!!! DUKE HAD A VERY FRIENDLY PERSONALITY AND WHEN YOU WORKED FOR HIM HE HAD THE KNACK OF BRINGING IT OUT OF YOU!! HARRY HAD DUKE PRODUCING AND WRITING FOR EVERY COMPANY THAT HARRY WAS INVOLVED IN.......................................
HARRY EVENTUALLY ENDED UP AT MOTOWN WERE HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR STARTING THE RARE EARTH LABEL, AND EVENTUALLY BECAME THE NUMBER ONE MAN FOR ALL OF THEIR ARTIST�S!!!..............

WELL THAT�S ALL FOR NOW MO-FU�S........................

BOB BABBITT

By DeAnne (24.234.119.126 - 24.234.119.126) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 04:03 am:

Dear Bob...I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but did you know that Bo Savage passed away last month? It was some form of cancer. I thought that you might want to know that. Dick Bossi (Stanford) let me know. Sorry to tell you. DeAnne

By phillysoulman (152.163.195.208 - 152.163.195.208) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 04:20 am:

What a f***n story!!! You are the master story teller. You got me beat.(check out studio stories thread) So vivid just like being there.
I think I will call you tonight,mo****r!!!

By Lowell (66.32.162.246 - 66.32.162.246) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 06:44 am:

I thought I would cruise into the Soulful Detroit to see what was cookin' and I find a freakin' bonfire. This is fabulous. It feels like I'm sitting at a bar in heaven [or the other place] and every few minutes someone says "Hey look who walked in". Only difference is that everybody is alive especially BABBIT who could have a second career as writer. Little did I know when I put his torn picture in the site that we would get such rewards. Thanks to all for making my day.

By John Lester (213.1.128.65 - 213.1.128.65) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:41 am:

I have to read Bob Babbitt's post in stages....it's just too much ....

Most of us have Bob's life story in our cupboards and we didn't even know it. Amazing!

By John Lester (213.1.128.65 - 213.1.128.65) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:50 am:

Bob ..that story about James with his gun also ought to go on the studio stories......it's a classic..

You guys are better than the comedians on TV......

By John Lester (213.1.128.65 - 213.1.128.65) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:55 am:

Bob ..that story about James with his gun needs to go on the studio stories......

You guys are better than the comedians on TV......

By Clay McMurray (66.73.176.189 - 66.73.176.189) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 10:09 am:

Hey Bob,
The Spyder Turner session which was cut at Tera Shirma, was on the MGM label and the first HIT records that I produced. You played bass on the Album that supported the single"Stand By Me" which was originally 15 minutes long and recorded by the Fabulous Counts(Leroy Emanuel on guitar, Mose on keys,Demo on sax,Andrew(not Smith) on drums. I'm not sure who played Bass! was it you?
Anyway, I'm going to look for my original copy of
the session tape and if I can find it I'll put the entire 15 minutes on a disc.LOL I heard Leroy Emanuel moved to NY did you ever run into him?
After we cut the album on Spyder I believe you played on everthing I cut at Tera Shirma after that, Eddie Hill, Joe Matthews,Emanuel Laskey,
The Strides,The Monticello's, Lonette McKee,Billy Kennedy and The Soul Detergents, Paul Parrish,Talking about TIME in a bottle. It was part of the best time in my life. LOL

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 02:03 pm:

Clay,
Mentioning Stand By Me...I think you have the distinction of recording the first big hit to come out of Tera Shirma.

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 06:53 pm:

Bob,

Thanks for another amazing post - my head is
absolutely reeling !

I didn't know Paul Warren was so young - I first
became aware of him when he was briefly in
Rare Earth - one of their best albums too.

He later had a band on the West Coast called Paul
Warren and Explorer, I'm still trying to track down their album. He was also in a band called
Nite City with ex-Doors keyboard player RAy
Manzarek.

The info. on Del Shannon's stuff was really interesting - always wanted to know who actually
played on them.

CAn't help with the records you're after - I don't collect vinyl any more ( not since some
b***** d broke into my house and nicked a collection I'd spent 25 years building up). I've
quite a lot of the records you mention on CD -
as soon as I get my new computer setup with a CD burner I'll make up some cd's for you including
the Act One album.

I've been trying to put together a listing of
all the Embee Productions releases - I'll post it
on the forum - it'll be useful for you Detroiters
when you're having trouble remembering titles and so on. Considering the number of sessions you were on it's not surprising you can't remember
everything.

Keep 'em coming ...

Davie

By DeAnne (24.234.119.126 - 24.234.119.126) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:33 pm:

Bob, Thought that you might enjoy this picture.

By recordboyusa (208.61.5.193 - 208.61.5.193) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:46 pm:

Babbitt!
Great stories!

Little Carl Carlton came out on Backbeat, a Texas label. "Day Tripper" was indeed that Beatles cover you mention. "A Toast To You" -- I take it this is the same song Louis Curry cut on MS?

I met Mickey Lolich a year ago, and guess what? He's a great story teller too, but about baseball, not music! And he is even more "roly poly" now than he was when he pitched for the Tigers! I'm a St. Louis Cardinals fanatic so I never bought any Lolich tribute records!, but he is a very nice guy.

Venture Records: That Calvin Arnold record was a gas. "Funky Way To Treat Somebody" was covered by the Soul Survivors, and by a Florida group called "Tommy Strand & The Upper Hand", who recorded a version for Fame Records. The Ballads also recorded for Venture, and had some national airplay in '68.

I can just picture that session for "I Love You 1000 Times". Just my opinion, but I think that's the finest single the Platters ever made!

Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com

By DeAnne (24.234.119.126 - 24.234.119.126) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:47 pm:

/image{royaltones}

By DeAnne (24.234.119.126 - 24.234.119.126) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:48 pm:

By DeAnne (24.234.119.126 - 24.234.119.126) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:56 pm:

I guess its too old and dark. It was George Kasakis,you, Dennis Coffee, Marcus Terry, from The West Fort announcing your new release "Our Faded Love".

By phillysoulman (205.188.198.174 - 205.188.198.174) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 07:59 pm:

Hi De Anne,

You really got your s**t together girlfriend!!!!
You should be in "The Smithsonian of Soul"!!
Babbitt looks "embryonic" by comparison.
Who are the other ones? Is that Dennis on guitar in his formative years??
Great stuff!!!!!!!

By DeAnne (24.234.119.126 - 24.234.119.126) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 08:05 pm:

I didn't think that it posted. Yes, that is Dennis on guitar, why can't I remember the sax...was it Dave something? I need Bob to remind me.

By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 08:08 pm:

DeAnne...WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bobby...fom L.to R. Dennis Coffey...Davy ( can't remember his last name..Marcus Terry ( a great drummer ) ..George Katsakis...and Babbitt

By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 08:51 pm:

DeAnne. Ralph

I think the sax player for the Royaltones was Dave Sandy.

By Davie g (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 08:54 pm:

DeAnne. Ralph

I think the sax player for the Royaltones was Dave Sandy.

It's just dawned on me who were saying had recently died - would that be Bo Savich who was
in Johnny and the Hurricanes ?

By DeAnne (24.234.119.126 - 24.234.119.126) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 09:00 pm:

Bo was in Jamie Coe and The Gigolos...very well known drummer in Detroit. It was Dave Sandy...it's been a long time.

By detroit gal (208.232.121.87 - 208.232.121.87) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 09:02 pm:

Guys, just heard the sad news that Rudy Robinson died -- and he'd just played a gig Saturday at the Scarab Club. Did someone already mention this? Apparently he died Sunday.

By BOB BABBITT (152.163.197.193 - 152.163.197.193) on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 01:46 am:

RUDY ROBINSON

LAST WINTER IN DETROIT AS THE FUNK BROTHERS STARTED THE REHEARSALS FOR THE FILM, ALAN SLUTSKY MADE THE DECISION TO BRING IN RUDY ROBINSON ALONG WITH JOE HUNTER AND JOHNNY GRIFFITH TO COVER THE ORGAN PARTS THAT WERE IN THE MUSIC WE RECORDED..........NOT ONLY DID HE PLAY LIKE HE NEVER MISSED A BEAT, HE KEPT EVERYONE ROLLING ON THE FLOOR WITH HIS CONSTANT JOKE TELLING!!!!!! RUDY WAS A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH IN THE DETROIT MUSIC SCENE!!! ..........HE WAS ONE OF THE MAIN PROOF�S IN THE PUDDING AS FAR AS THE MUSIC THAT CAME OUT OF DETROIT THAT WAS NOT JUST MOTOWN.............AS FAR AS I KNOW RUDY NEVER RECORDED A SESSION AT MOTOWN?..... BUT AS A PIANO PLAYER, ARRANGER, AND PRODUCER HE WAS INVOLVED IN COUNTLESS NUMBER OF HIT RECORDS THAT CAME OUT OF DETROIT FOR OTHER RECORD COMPANIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND AS FAR AS THE MUSIC THAT WAS MADE IN DETROIT........... A SPIRITUAL BOND THAT INCLUDED A SELECT FEW THAT HAVE SET THE WORLD ON FIRE TO THIS DAY WITH THEIR CREATIVE ACCOMPLISHMENTS, RUDY WAS WITHOUT A DOUBT ONE OF THEM................I KNOW HE IS WITH HIS LOVED ONE�S WHO HAVE PASSED BEFORE HIM, AND YOU CAN BET HE WILL BE PLAYING AT �MOTOWN�

BOB BABBITT

By BOB BABBITT (152.163.197.193 - 152.163.197.193) on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 01:53 am:

HEY MO-FU'S...........
RIGHT....DAVE SANDY WAS THE OTHER SAX PLAYER ON THE PHOTO...ALSO SANG LIKE A BIRD........
SORRY TO HEAR ABOUT BO SAVAGE.........
MORE COMING!!!!!!!!
THE BABBITT

By BOB BABBITT (152.163.197.193 - 152.163.197.193) on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 01:55 am:

BO DID PLAY FOR JOHNNY AND THE HURRICANES...ALSO HE WAS WITH THE ROYALTONES FOR A WHILE.......
THE BABBITT

By John Lester (213.122.196.145 - 213.122.196.145) on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 11:22 pm:

Rudy Robinson is featured on the album on Leslie Uggams on Motown 846..recorded at United Sound amongst other places. Produced by Don Davis and Graham Pratt.

The songs on that album were very much in the style of the Philly classics.

Keyboards: Rudy, Earl Van Dyke, Barry Beckett, Norma Toney
Bass: Micahel Henderson, Peanut Chandler, David Hood
Drums; Pistol, Roger Hawkins, Zackery Slater
Guitars, Robert White, Eddie Willia, Jimmy Johnson and Eddie Hinton.
Horns and Strings..Carl Auston and teh Detroit Fisher Theatre Strings, John Trudell and the Detroit Horns.
Alot sax solo by Eli Fontaine.

Its really a great album, I love this one.

Rudy was also on Martha Reeves latest album "Home To You"....as was our dear Clay and Pree

By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 11:34 pm:

the 'detroit fisher theater strings' ; now there's a strange one.

totally unconnected but there were offices in the fisher building which recorded pressing detail.

see dave flynn's site,
http://www.capitolsoulclub.homestead.com/

By Ian W (213.122.109.132 - 213.122.109.132) on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:09 pm:

Re. Dawn, a few messages back.

Anybody know if Rust is a Detroit label? As in:

Rust - Dawn - Baby I Love You

Cheers,
Ian

By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:24 pm:

Hi Ian

I think RUST was a subsidiary of Laurie in New York, if I remember correctly.

By Ian W (213.122.109.132 - 213.122.109.132) on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 10:38 pm:

Cheers, Ritchie. I tRUST you are correct!

By Eli (152.163.204.196 - 152.163.204.196) on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:41 pm:

Rust was definitely a sub of Laurie in NYC.

By Dennis Coffey (206.47.172.178 - 206.47.172.178) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 12:58 am:

Hey Babbit! We did so many sessions together, I even forgot some. You bring back some memories. I thought it was a long time ago but hell we did some sessions together last year. I guess when you gotta play, you gotta play. Thanks DeAnne for the Royal Tone Pictures. I just saw George Katsakis last week.

Dennis Coffey

By DeAnne (24.234.119.126 - 24.234.119.126) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 05:55 am:

Dennis...Will you come and meet us in September at the place where Guy and George are playing...I certainly hope so....I will invite Cousin George Trois and Buzzy with their horns to sit in...it will be the best!!! Let me know if you can come okay???...thanks

By Dennis Coffey (205.188.200.27 - 205.188.200.27) on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 12:10 am:

Hey DeAnne. I just spoke to Mike Theodore. Maybe its time to have a once a year reunion here for all interested parties. Maybe September could be the time. I havn't seen Buzzy or George in years.

Dennis Coffey

By Dennis Coffey (152.163.194.182 - 152.163.194.182) on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 09:18 pm:

Hi folks, I do remember playing on the Flaming Embers tunes for HDH. Every time I read the forum, it brings back more memories.

Dennis Coffey

By DeAnne (24.234.119.126 - 24.234.119.126) on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 09:47 pm:

I spoke to Buzzy this morning. His computer is in the shop but, he is supposed to pick it up this weekend. I told him about the forum and the site. The reunion idea is great. I will be there September 5-9th I believe...I will check my vacation schedule again. George is president of the Theatre Musicians, and is still playing a lot. We can get them to bring their horns..it will be great fun. I haven't seen you or Mike in forever...I don't want to remember how long. I have a characature sketch of a band called "Troy" that was sent to me in 1978 with you on guitar and buzzy and george, and everyone signed it. I'll bet you don't even remember that group!! Talk to you later.

By DeAnne (24.234.119.126 - 24.234.119.126) on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 09:51 pm:

Brian Russell, George Brooks, and Carl something signed the picture...That's all I can make from the signatures.

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.107.27.25 - 213.107.27.25) on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 10:56 pm:

can we try and close this post down please. 156 posts to date!

due to speed of downloads etc.

just open up a new thread.

thanks
david

By Lynn Bruce (68.41.108.38 - 68.41.108.38) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 03:24 pm:

Babbit, Whats happinin?Walla I swear its been along time.I know for a fact that you played on cooljerk as we were playing at the wayne show-bar at the time. After the gig you would take off for the studios for session work.One night you came in and told us about this bad-ass song you did called cool-jerk. So we had the song DOWN and when it became a hit in Detroit we were really cookin on it (of course having you on bass and jimmy springer singing lead helped )Remember when we worked with Chuck Berry and when he would take a long gitar solo and turn around and ask us what song he was singing.I worked for a while with a blues man called Mr Bo in Detroit here, but in the last few years I,ve been playing with some local bands. Between dj,s and kareoki the bar jobs are scarce.I,ve been asked to join a Scottish bagpipe band (talk about a change in drumming styles i.e. rudiments rudiments.My grand father was killed in action fighting for Scotland and I thought my name was laddie till I was five. So maybe I,ts time for some kick-ass Scottish music.See you around the campus. Lynn Bruce

By BOBBABBITT (152.163.206.189 - 152.163.206.189) on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 04:12 am:

HEY LYNN..........WOW!! IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME.........GOOD TO HEAR YOU ARE STILL PLAYING......SAME THING HERE.....TOO LATE TO DO ANY THING ELSE........THERE WILL BE A PREMIER OF THE MOTOWN FILM THIS SUMMER IN DETROIT.....HOPE I WILL SEE YOU THERE!!!!!!BOB BABBITT

By Son of Thunder (65.129.24.43 - 65.129.24.43) on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 04:27 am:

Greetings Bob Babbitt-was listening to "It's A Shame"-The Spinners.Are you on this track?It sounds like you,Uriel and Robert White.The bass and drums sound like the same players as on Signed,Sealed,Delivered,who I know is you and Uriel.

By jack (216.78.131.111 - 216.78.131.111) on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 05:17 am:

Bob I went to the new york times and searched around for tribeca festable and found our revue and loved what they said . Check it out. Jack

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.122.153.156 - 213.122.153.156) on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 07:34 am:

****thread closed for the second time*****
****please commence new BABBIT thread*****
***************thankyou*******************
******************************************
******************************************

By Shaz (208.59.247.9 - 208.59.247.9) on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 03:40 am:

Hi Bob,

Just wanted to thank you, I came up with a great bass line for a song my band is doing, and then I heard Ball of Confusion on the radio soon after, and realized that my bass line was a variation on your already great one, and although I haven't heard that song in a very long time I guess the bass line always stuck in my head. Just want to say THANK YOU! and I'm looking forward to the Standing In the SHadows of Motown movie.