|By Rich (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 01:57 pm:|
First time posting after lurking a bit. I know that P-Funk isn't the most popular topic with Northern Soul Fans but I'm specifically interested in knowing if any of you folks might have any ideas or suggestions for tracking down Invictus sessions from late '71 to late '73 or so where Billy Bass, Eddie Hazel, Bernie Worrell were playing (i.e. Chairman of the Board's "Skin I'm In" LP) I'm thinking I hear Billy & Bernie on songs by The Smith Connection (I'm Bugging Your Phone) & 8th Day (Cheeba) and looking for more. There's a nice B&W Photo of Billy, Bernie & Donald Baldwin on the cover of a UK compilation CD entitled Invictus Club Classics. Anyhow thanks for any help.
|By david, glasgow, scotland (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 04:36 pm:|
hi rich and thanks for joining the discussion.
well here's one northern soul fan who also digs
p funk. anything to do with george clinton will be more than welcome on here.
the invictus expert is howard priestley. does anyone have his e-mail address for rich?
|By Rich (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 05:45 pm:|
Alright Dave!! its good to know there's another northern soul fan who doesn't think P-Funk ruined music (Keb Darge quote I believe). I've seen shows by both P-Funk & Bernie Worrell's band in the last six months and loved 'em both. Bernie opened for War in Philly and both those bands delivered. War's not exactly Northern Soul either, in fact War's not even War anymore (LOL) but Lonnie Jordan was ON IT.
|By david, glasgow, scotland (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 05:52 pm:|
rich - if you live in philly watch out for bobby eli and tell him we're missing him on the forum!
|By Rich (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 06:14 pm:|
MFSB's Guitarist (along with Norman Harris) - Bobby Eli, Mr "Love Won't Let Me Wait" & "If Only I Knew". Played on a lot of those Thom Bell sessions for the Spinners. If I catch him on the forum, I've got to ask if he knows who's playing on the Gamble-Huff produced Engine No 9 by Wilson Pickett. That's some nasty nasty Detroit sounding stuff right there.
|By Ralph Terraa (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 07:14 pm:|
Speaking of Bobby Eli....where in the hell is he?? He had sent me an e-mail sometime around the holidays and said he would be out of touch for a while. Maybe he's on the road or something.
|By John Lester (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 09:31 pm:|
Wow...now I can admit to being a part of Club Classics Volume 2!!!!
I have a phone number for Howard Priestly but I dont seem to have his email address in my address book any more. Howard was a nice guy, very genuine I thought. He was working on the HDH Story..
|By Rich (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 10:05 pm:|
LOL - ... In fact you have to admit it John I see you mentioned in the thank-yous. The cover shot is from inside a (Invictus?) studio. I've been trying to dig some things to get Nelson some net-exposure. The other week Billy's riding down the road when he hears "Car Wash" on the radio and turns to a mutual friend and says "You know, that sounds like me" She says it is you I know because I was there". Bass has played on so many sessions he can't remember them all. Like The Miracles "Love Machine" I'm hearing that one when it strikes me that its Eddie Hazel, no doubt!
|By John Lester (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Saturday, January 26, 2002 - 09:16 am:|
John Reed of Sanctuary (Sequel) chose ALL the tracks - he came round and made me play my record collection and then...... we have that album.
BTW, "I Got It" is apparently an "exclusive to the UK" white label remix...
|By david, glasgow, scotland (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Saturday, January 26, 2002 - 10:23 am:|
i'd love to seee the pic of the studio interior.
do you have a scanner?
|By david, glasgow, scotland (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Saturday, January 26, 2002 - 10:24 am:|
i'd love to see the pic of the studio interior.
do you have a scanner?
|By phillysoulman (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 05:59 am:|
HI EVERYONE. I WAS ON HIATUS FOR A HOT MINUTE BUT I AM BACK!!!!! IT FEELS GOOD TO BE MISSED.
RICH, REGARDING YOUR ENGINE #9 QUERY, THAT WAS ME ON THE LEAD FUZZ STUFF AND NORMAN HARRIS ON THE CHORDS. RONNIE BAKER ON BASS, EARL YOUNG ON DRUMS , LENNY PAKULA ON ORGAN AND HUFF ON PIANO.
PICKETT SANG LIVE IN THE STUDIO WITH US. ON THE LONG VERSION HE SHOUTS " PLAY YOUR GUITAR SON" AND THAT WAS ME HE WAS SCREAMING TO. I LOVED IT.
IT WAS DEFINITELY AN ENERGETIC MOMENT.
|By ErikT.O. (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 06:59 am:|
Damn, Engine #9 might be my favourite Wilson Pickett song!! I thought that might have been Duane Allman travelling north for that session or something, almost every time I play it on my radio show someone calls to say 'that was the hottest James Brown song I've ever heard!' hah hah... now what we need is to unearth some live Pickett to release, may I nominate Stockholm '69 from Swedish radio, this is a smoldering set... thanks phillysoulman for knocking a lot of people out!! /Erik
|By phillysoulman (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 04:30 pm:|
A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE UNAWARE THAT WILSON PICKETT RECORDED THAT SONG WITH US IN PHILLY. HE BROUGHT WITH HIM A TYPE OF ENERGY THAT HAS DEFINITELY BEEN A HIGHLIGHT IN MY SESSION CAREER. IT WAS ALL DONE IN THE FIRST TAKE LIVE IN THE STUDIO. I BELIEVE THAT IT WAS MIXED AS IT WENT ALONG SO WHAT YOU HEAR IS THE WAY IT ORIGINALLY WAS RECORDED!!!! PARTS OF MY SOLO HAVE BEEN SAMPLED BY RAPPERS FROM TIME TO TIME AS WELL.
I WROTE A SONG ON THAT ALBUM CALLED HELP THE NEEDY. WILSON CAME BACK TO PHILLY A YEAR LATER TO DO ANOTHER ALBUM WITH DAVE CRAWFORD AS PRODUCER AND I ONCE AGAIN WROTE A SONG FOR HIM CALLED MR. MAGIC MAN. IN 1981 I PRODUCED A DUET WITH HIM AND JACKIE MOORE ON HER SONG PRECIOUS, PRECIOUS. I AM STILL IN TOUCH WITH HIM FROM TIME TO TIME.
|By david, glasgow, scotland (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 07:26 pm:|
'precious precious' is a great record.
jackie moore is highly rated.
|By John Lester (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 07:51 pm:|
Bobby........you are talking about my record collection here!
I am gonna check out my collection....
|By John Lester (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 07:57 pm:|
I didn't need to look for long
Got To Get You Back - Sons of Robin Stone.....
That was a great record, I danced to that more times than I care to remember.
You tempted me out of my Motown obsession!
|By John Lester (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 08:00 pm:|
Major Harris..Love Won't Let Me Wait.
Wow..we are talking HUGE songs here!!
|By Rich (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 09:30 pm:|
Hey Bobby, real quick before them game starts ... Engine No 9 the full six or 7 minute version from WP in Philadelphia is raw. I think there's another part where Wilson says "I'm Gonna let the band cook a while" Thanks for the info, Harris-Baker-Young W/ Eli. Bobby all that fuzz is just crazzzzy. Sounds like you were checkin' in with some Eddie Hazel on that one. Speaking of Major Harris, I believe that Joseph Jefferson (who wrote a lot of the Philly classics for the Spinners & others was Major's Brother. Major was a Delphonic for a few years but I think he joined after they'd already hit with La-La & Didn't I. Anyhow, gotta go ... kick-off
|By phillysoulman (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Sunday, January 27, 2002 - 10:06 pm:|
RITCHIE, MAJOR WAS NOT RELATED TO JOE JEFFERSON. THEY ARE BOTH FROM RICHMOND VIRGINIA AND WERE IN NAT TURNER'S REBELLION, A GROUP THAT RECORDRD FOR PHILLY GROOVE BUT WITHOUT MAJOR SUCCESS.
MAJOR HARRIS CAME IN AFTER RANDY CAIN HAD ONE OF HIS BOUTS WITH DRUG ABUSE. HE WAS ON A LOT OF THE SEVENTIES STUFF WITH THEM DOING THE BARITONE LEADS. THERE ARE TWO DELFONICS GROUPS WORKING NOW, ONE OF THEM HAS MAJOR IN THE LINEUP.
|By Ade (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Monday, January 28, 2002 - 09:53 am:|
Great thread fellas.
If we're talking live Wilson tracks, my vote would go for "Don't let the green grass fool you" also done by the spinners, but when Wilson sings it, he REALLY sings it. The energy that he brought to those studios must have been incredible, because ven when I play that at home it feels like the house is buzzing!
|By BOB BABBITT (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 06:29 am:|
HEY MO-FU’S......THE BABBITT HERE............ YOUR GETTING AWAY FROM INVICTUS MUSICIANS.................
KEYBOARDS......JOHNNY GRIFFTH......RUDY ROBINSON
GUITARS.............EDDIE WILLIS........DENNIS COFFEY......RAY MONETTE
BASS................... .MYSELF.............AND IF I WASN’T THERE I THINK THEY USED TONY NEWTON
DRUMS................ URIEL JONES............ANDREW SMITH..........RICHARD “PISTOL” ALLEN
TAMBOURINE & VIBES........JACK ASHFORD
INVICTUS, HOT WAX WERE THE LABELS HOLLAND & DOZIER HAD AND ONE OF THE GROUPS THAT WE RECORDED HIT’S ON WAS CALLED THE “FLAMING EMBERS”....... (“ MIND, BODY, AND SOUL“....”WESTBOUND # 9“)....WHEN THEY RELEASED THE ALBUM ON THIS GROUP THEY GAVE CREDITS TO THE BAND MEMBERS WHEN IN FACT THE ONLY GUY ON THE RECORDS WAS THE LEAD SINGER.....F--K ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND THE PARLIMENT-FUNKADELIC............THE FIRST P-FUNK ALBUM ( I THINK THE LABEL WAS WESTBOUND?) THEY HAD ANDREW SMITH ON DRUMS, RAY MONETTE ON GUITAR ,AND MYSELF ON BASS.............GUESS WHAT?????????? THEY GAVE CREDITS TO THE LIVE ROAD BAND...............
THAT ALBUM ACTUALLY PUT P-FUNK ON THE MAP.......F--K ME AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BOB BABBITT.......I AM GOING TO POST THIS ON INVICTUS MUSICIANS AND ON BOB BABBITT.............
|By david, glasgow, scotland (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Tuesday, February 05, 2002 - 09:07 am:|
did you play at the h/d/h studio on grand river at meyers?
it was formerly known as the town theater.
i wonder at which stage they moved there?
|By Rich (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 04:32 pm:|
Invictus Session Musicians, right! I'll try to stay on point. Anybody know who the Barrino Brothers were or if this was more or less a made up name for the Babbitt, Monette, Smith studio band. They had a couple of singles & an unreleased LP for Invictus around '71. Also Ruth Copeland's first album on Invictus featured Babbitt, Monette as well as Funkadelic. Anybody have any "song-specific" insights or know if it was recorded at Terra Shirma?
|By Ritchie Hardin (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 05:03 pm:|
OK, now we're back on line... who can answer a question someone raised last night when a friend and I were discussing Invictus 45s...?
Who played that gorgeous sax on the (still) spine-tingling H-D single Why Can't We Be Lovers?
PS - I still have my original Barrino Bros I Shall Not Be Moved 45!
|By Davie G (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 06:42 pm:|
The Barrino Brothers definitely existed - they
were a four man vocal group. Their album, "Living
High On The Goodness Of Your Love" isn't unreleased but is so rare it might as well be.
Their complete Invictus output is however available on a CD from the UK based Sequel label.
Sequel deserve plaudits for keeping Invictus and
Hot Wax alive - I think they've issued on cd
almost the entire output of all the HDH labels.
SEquel have a website - i can't remember the
URL offhand but will post it later so you can check out what's available ( including both Ruth
Copeland's albums )
|By John Lester (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 08:25 pm:|
I am shutting up! All I can say is ..I tried........
John Reed and I tried our best to put out as much as we could on Sequel ....Even the Satisfaction Unlimited album nearly got a release!
But there is hope still for unissued stuff........
|By david, glasgow, scotland (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 09:00 pm:|
for me this pic is detroit. oh how i wish i had been there then. eli/terrana/babbitt i hope you guys know how lucky you were.
some of the barrino brothers work is fantastic especially 'trapped in a love' 'i shall not be moved' and 'i had it all'. lead singer perry barrino is nothing short of sensational! btw they also worked with dave hamilton at tcb.
where are they now i wonder. next time in the big d i'm going to look up the phone book..they should be easy to find!
thanks for bringing this up rich.
|By Ritchie Hardin (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 09:07 pm:|
David - many thanks for posting that picture. For thirty years I've wondered what the Barrino Brothers looked like!!
|By david, glasgow, scotland (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 09:17 pm:|
ritchie i'm playing the cd right now.
it's fantastic, where the hell was it recorded?
1970-1 were the years. town theatre on grand river? where's babbit?
dare i say it, perry sounds like david ruffin at times.
i see john lester gets mentioned in the sleevenotes again. i'm beginning to like him!
|By Ritchie Hardin (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 09:24 pm:|
David - you dare say it. (I've secretly thought that for thirty years myself!!!)
|By Rich (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 09:36 pm:|
David, you are furious with a scanner Dawg! You gotta get one of those coats too! I keep looking up at 'em & I can't stop laughing. Its like the guys in the black coats were adamant "Yo, we're wearing our coats for the pic". So the other two had to run home and grab their mamas coat and four pair of sis' boots. The guy second to left looks like "Yeah, its my mamas coat, you got something to say about it" - LOL - Anyhow, What's the music like? And are Al Kent, Al Hamilton & Dave Hamilton all the person. Dave Hamilton produced a track for somebody named Jackie Dee entitled "Love You Whole Heartedly" that is straight-up as Funky as it gets.
|By david, glasgow, scotland (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 09:52 pm:|
al kent and al hamilton are one and the same.
dave hamilton's overview can be found on soulfuldetroit tcb/temple/topper stories.
a former motown man too who never got his full credits.
yes dave hamilton did a few top funky numbers.
btw you're right about the coats! i was clouded by their wondrous music whcih was playing in the background.
to summarise buy the cd it's great.
|By John Lester (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 12:02 am:|
Thank you for the ALMOST nice comment...I shall remember that........in fact, watch out for my last will and testament.....yeah, you can pay for the flowers! HAHAHAHA
|By BOB BABBITT (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 03:35 am:|
HEY MO-FU,S...........BARRINO BROTHERS AND RUTH COPELAND.........THE RECORDINGS PROBABLY STARTED AT TERA SHIRMA AND WHEN H&D OPENED UP TOWER THEY FINISHED THE STUFF THERE..........I ALSO DID SOME LIVE CONCERTS WUTH RUTH COPELAND.........
ALSO "90 DAYS IN THE COUNTY JAIL" WAS A RECORD I PRODUCED ON DANNY WOODS (RECORDED AT THE ORGINAL TERA SHIRMA) WHO LATER BECAME A MEMBER OF CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD..THE NAME ROBERT KREINAR IS MY LEGAL NAME...DON'T ASK ME HOW I GOT STUCK WITH BABBITT.................LATER MO-FU'S
|By acooolcat (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 11:25 pm:|
Weren't McKinley Jackson and his band (The Politicians) doing some of the session work at Invictus?
|By Joe Podorsek (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 07:44 pm:|
Don't forget Freda Payne from the HDH daze
|By john lester (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 07:59 pm:|
Freda is in the UK at the moment...touring with Martha Reeves and Edwin Starr.
I shall be seeing them all next week and I am really looking forward to it.
I saw a picture of Freda taken last week - that lady could make mincemeat of most men...Ralph - you have been warned!!
|By Carl Dixon London (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 05:39 am:|
John - you have me worried! Where are you seeing them?? I need to check my tickets. Are you going to see The Originals in that case?
|By Ralph (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 01:28 pm:|
Regarding Freda...I'd be willing to give it a shot.
|By firstname.lastname@example.org (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 07:33 pm:|
thought you would all like this reveiw of the tour
from the observer news paper
Now that Tina Turner has hung up her wigs and fishnets, pop is crying out for a glamorous grannie. Step forward Martha Reeves, formerly of the Vandellas. In a shimmery dress, she hurls herself around like a teenager, and makes the giddy Heatwave sound a little giddier than it should. "I am overcome by this warm weather!" the one-time Motown secretary pants. "What am I singing next?" She is an explosion of soul, sweat, sex and sequins, and it is difficult to accept that she has just turned 60.
Reeves is typical of the Motown Records spirit that is being revived on this tour. She is joined by Edwin Starr, Freda "Band of Gold" Payne (who wasn't actually on Motown but signed to songwriters Holland-Dozier-Holland's own label, Invictus), and an excellent band who have that shuffling beat gloriously right. Amplified by the kind of tinny sound system used in the 1960s, the drum kit sounds like a set of pans being hit by a metal spatula. It gives the music a raw urgency that bypasses cabaret and underlines how revolutionary these sounds once were.
Payne excels herself on a beautiful version of Diana Ross's Touch Me in the Morning, while Starr's showstopper is Tracks of My Tears; he still seems humbled by the emotional power of Smokey Robinson's song. Between outpourings, Reeves and Payne comically attempt to upstage each other's costumes. Reeves appears in a lace and diamante affair that causes Starr to gasp, "That dress is wearing me out!" Payne retorts with a skirt so short it could qualify as a fan belt.
Even so, the show belongs to Reeves. Originally Motown's most powerful moments tapped into black struggle and hardship; now the poignancy in Reeves's vocal comes from her battle with the years, and the way she wrestles to keep hold of distant memories. Dancing in the Street is predictably riotous, and she puts everything into Nowhere to Run. When she tells of crying as she performed Forget Me Not for soldiers going away to the Falklands, you believe her. That's real soul.
|By john lester (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Friday, April 12, 2002 - 11:02 pm:|
Didn't I just KNOW you were gonna say that!
I am gonna tell her that when I see her!!!
|By Howard Priestley (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 06:45 pm:|
Thought I'd come in out of the cold...
Howard Priestley here, just been reading the stuff on Invictus. Don't know about the expert bit but I have a completed book on HDH ready to go...anywhere!! I think it's amazing that even after 30 years we still uncover things.
I've just written a piece on William Weatherspoon for the fanzine, Soul Up North
|By David Meikle (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 08:26 pm:|
Thanks for coming on to the forum Howard.
I have enjoyed you articles in Soul Up North.
I hope you get somewhere with that book!
Still, we've got some space for a webisode on H/D/H if you fancy
|By Davie G (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 11:50 am:|
I was wondering when you were going to join us !
I hope you continue to check in - we could do with your expertise on all things HDH related.
|By Dennis Coffey (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 12:23 pm:|
Hi Folks. In all the discussions about Invictus and Hot Wax, no one has mentioned Zack the drummer, Sylvester, the keyboard player, Peanut, the bass player, Mackinley Jackson, the arranger and Ray Parker the guitar player. These were young new kats. They were part of the scene at the Tower Theater Studio after Tera Shirma. I was there and worked with them.
|By LTLFTC (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 02:45 pm:|
I'm glad to see someone acknowledge that 2nd wave of Invictus studio musicians. I was always impressed with Zack Slater and especially Peanut Chandler..do you remember what you recorded with them and do you have any idea if any of them are still playing (or are in the Detroit area)?
|By Dennis Coffey (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 07:03 pm:|
Hi LTLFTC. I am not sure what songs I recorded with them at HDH but we did a lot. I used Peanut on my Back Home album. I ran into Sylvester at a session in LA. I don't know what happened to Zack. Mackinley Jackson went on the road as an arranger/conductor for a name act but I can't remember which one. I don't know what any of them are doing now.
|By Howard Priestley (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 09:01 pm:|
Nice to be on board. Roderick Peanut Chandler and some of the other Politicians formed a group, Morning, Noon and Night for one album on UA, the single was "Bite Your Granny" He also cut tracks with Clinton, check out the Family series on Sequel for some soulful surprises.
|By LTLFTC (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 09:20 pm:|
Thanks, Howard ; all Invictus/Hot Wax minutae is appreciated and good luck with your HDH book.
|By David Meikle (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 07:37 am:|
That Morning, Noon and Night album is excellent.
|By Davie G (184.108.40.206 - 220.127.116.11) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:47 pm:|
Thanks Howard - that's news to me
|By 1wicked (18.104.22.168 - 22.214.171.124) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 09:19 pm:|
I remember the Morning, Noon, and Night album ! Wasn't it produced by the same guy who did B.T. Express & Brass Construction ? Oh..and Babbitt...I thought the nickname was some sort of reference to the Abbott & Costello thing..."Heyyyyy.....Babbbbbittttt" !!
|By 1wicked (126.96.36.199 - 188.8.131.52) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 09:22 pm:|
WRT to the War comment....I guess Lonnie won the legal battle and only he can use the name WAR...the other guys are in a group called S.O.B. (Same Ole Band).