By soulkikker (195.18.123.98 - 195.18.123.98) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 03:39 pm: |
First of all lots of praise for this superb site, it's very, very interesting for a long time Motown fan from Europe, and it also looks very good and works fine.
I was just wondering if you fellow-Detroit lovers are also interest in other great music from Detroit (apart from Motown). I'm referring to bands like Mitch Ryder, Iggy & The Stooges, MC5, Ted Nugent and Bob Seger. And what would be more interesting: is there anything known about relations between these people and the Motown musicians? Did they know eachother, was there any contact musically? And how about the whole techno/house thing that put Detroit on the map once again in the early 90ties. Do you see any connections there?
By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 05:05 pm: |
Welcome to the forum Soulkikker,
Generally speaking I think most of us here are interested in all music that came out of Detroit. Having been in the 60's generation of musicians in the city I can tell you that there was quite a bit of inter-action between the musicians of various genres of music. We may not have all played togther, but were definitey aware of one another on some sort of level, professional or otherwise. Detroit was quite the place to be, from a musical standpoint, in those days. Stick around and ask the questions that interest you. There is ALWAYS someone here with an answer or opinion.
By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 05:09 pm: |
Hi soulkikker,
Welcome to the forum.
Personally I've got pretty wide tastes so apart
from Motown I enjoy a lot of Detroit's garage
bands and rock bands - I saw the MC5 "live"
as well as Ted Nugent. Those two I think I
prefer as live acts - I don't really play their
records very often. SRC were an excellent band
and there were many mid sixties groups who had
a few singles which were brilliant, the Unrelated
Segments are one of my faves. Bob Seger - I tend
to prefer his early stuff like "East Side Story"
to his later work. The Stooges - I know some people think they're some sort of gods but they've
never worked for me - I don't have any of their
records and don't really miss them. Having
listened to Motown for so long I suppose I must
prefer more "refined" music.
As far as house music goes I don't see any connection other than that the people incvolved live in the same city - I rate people like Colonel Abrams but basically there's only so much
time you can spend listening to music so nowadays I tend to stick with what I know. The only
house/hiphop (excuse my terminology) act that I can see have much to do with sixties vocal groups
is the Force MD's - but the divide is as wide as
say between fifties doowoppers and sixties soul groups - there are some singers who lasted through both periods but a lot of the time you're
talking about a different generation.
It's an interesting topic and my comments are
pretty much off the top of my head so I'll be
interested to see what others think
By Fury13 (12.2.196.14 - 12.2.196.14) on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 06:09 pm: |
FYI, the legendary Jack Scott, Detroit's first national rockabilly/pop star with four Top Ten hits from 1958-60, is still playing regularly in the Detroit area. He's at Duggan's in Royal Oak tomorrow night with his hot Top Rank Band, playing outside beginning about 6:30 p.m. to kick off this year's Woodward Dream Cruise. Jack's voice is as good as ever, he looks great, and his band is tight.
By Mark Speck (65.58.48.243 - 65.58.48.243) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 04:46 am: |
WOW! Jack Scott's still playing? I always thought that guy was underrated. He really should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
I LOVE the MC5, Seger, Amboy Dukes, Stooges, Rationals, etc., etc. Detroit really DID have a great rock and roll legacy!
Best,
Mark
By David Meikle (213.122.65.234 - 213.122.65.234) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 07:51 am: |
http://home.att.net/~s.m.geer/
For more info go to above.
By soulkikker (195.18.123.98 - 195.18.123.98) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 01:32 pm: |
Thanks for all your replies.It's really exciting to see how much knowledge and enthousiasm there is out there.
And Ralph, I'm sure I'll ask loads of other questions soon. I've read other threads in this forum and was thrilled by some of the things people could tell because they were actually there when it happened (as opposed to people like me who only have their record collections and books).
By Ralph Terrana (Ralph) (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 01:48 pm: |
Soulkikker,
I was " there ' when it was all taking place and I still learn things on this forum. I think you will find that there is no other place quite like this one. We're happy to have you here.
By john c (12.2.233.107 - 12.2.233.107) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 07:16 pm: |
Any opinions or experiences with ? and the Mysterians, Grand Funk or Terry Knight anyone?
By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 08:21 pm: |
John C,
? and the Mysterians were managed by Basil Galan who was a client of mine at Tera Shirma.I know not all of 96 Tears was recorded at TS, but I believe the vocals were done there. Mr. Galan owned a night club, possibly more than one, that catered to a Mexican American Clientel. He would book TS to record the many Mexican bands he had under contract and then sell the records out of his clubs. ? and the Mysterians were one of these bands that just happened to luck into a hit record. Unfortunately Mr.Galan was shot and killed in his night club just after the success of 96 Tears. Carl Cisco and Tommy Shannon had a meeting with Mr. Galan's widow to see if it could be determned if there were ay Mysterian tracks in the can. I don't remember the result of these meetings.
Regarding Grand Funk: John Rhys Eddins who posts here occasionally is, in my opinion, the driving force that helped propel the group, known at the time as The Pack, to success. John is a very talented producer and through his efforts The Pack was molded into Grand Funk.A recent release on the group has several John Rhys tracks on it.
Terry Knight was a local Detroit folk singer.
In all honesty, as a folk singer I thought he was rather boring. He would appear on Robin Seymour's TV show from time to time and sing these terrible ballads. However he would eventually form The Pack and become their manager and in that regard I give him high marks. The story goes that he hitch hiked in the middle of a bitter Winter from Detroit to New York with the first of the Grand Funk masters with him to have a meeting and ultimately make a deal for the group. Ya gotta respect a guy with that kind of determination.
By john c (12.2.233.107 - 12.2.233.107) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 08:31 pm: |
Thanks Ralph. You have an incredible wealth of knowledge.
john c
By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, August 16, 2002 - 08:39 pm: |
Not really John. I just happen to be in the right place at the right time.
By mhc (172.146.205.188 - 172.146.205.188) on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 02:05 am: |
The first time I ever saw The MC5 was at a "Teen Fair" type event at Cobo Hall in Detroit, sometime during 1967. I was wandering around and saw a band getting ready to start their set, so I wandered over. I got right up close and the guys were just standing there. Many minutes went by.. As they just stood there waiting and waiting, and the crowd just stood there watching and waiting, it started to dawn on me that the guys had a kind of aura about them; they really gave off a vibe, just standing there. After maybe 10 minutes of this heavy anticipation, the lead singer walked back out to his microphone and politely announced to the crowd, "Well I'm sorry folks, but the people in charge of the amplifiers won't let us turn them up past 5. If we can't turn them up all the way, then we can't play our music the way it's supposed to be played, so we'll see you some other time." And they walked off and that was it. About a year later, my Dad took my brother and I to see Jimi Hendrix, and the MC5 were the second opening act. The absolutuely floored me. They had tons of charisma and energy, and they just pulverised everybody, and it felt great. I saw them a couple more times after that, and those remain the best shows I've ever seen by a Rock band, or at least the ones that moved me the most. There's a film coming out now about the band called "The MC5- A True Testimonial". It's being shown at a few festivals this summer and fall, and is supposed to be released this year. In fact, I got a call the other day from a guy from the production company. A festival in Toronto in September has the MC5 film AND th Funk Brother film. Now THAT'S a film festival..
By LTLFTC (12.245.225.79 - 12.245.225.79) on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 04:13 am: |
Speaking of "other" Detroit music, I have an observation/question for other Michiganians here at the forum regarding the popularity of certain rock bands in the late '60s. Between the ages of 13-15 (1967-1969), I saw the following bands, for the most part at a couple of teen clubs (the Note and The Cobra) in mid-Michigan; The Amboy Dukes, Alice Cooper, MC5, Bob Seger (several times, once with 10 others in attendance ), Funkadelic, Teegarden & VanWinkle among others. but ,by far, the most popular, in terms of crowd reaction and ticket sales, were The Frost with Dick Wagner. My question is; was this the case in the Eastern part of the State as well? They certainly didn't make the splash nationally that these other acts did and in terms of uniqueness (original material etc) they don't measure up to the other bands I mentioned, but they would draw ten times the crowd Nugent or Seger would around here. It's not like they were from this part of the State or anything; does anyone else remember these guys?
Steve K.
By Sue (64.12.102.157 - 64.12.102.157) on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 04:27 am: |
Well of course I do ... Dick Wagner was and is such a talent. He went on of course to work with Alice Cooper ...
Pre-Alice, I wonder if he toured outside Michigan much? That might be a factor in who non-Michiganians know or don't know.
By Mark Speck (65.56.220.250 - 65.56.220.250) on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 06:33 am: |
Re Terry Knight: the last I'd heard anything about him was around 1992, when my friend Tom King (guitarist/founder of the Outsiders of "Time Won't Let Me" fame) told me that Terry was in a nasty car accident and was severely injured.
Best,
Mark
By TD (205.188.197.187 - 205.188.197.187) on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 11:51 am: |
Ralph
Whats the scoop on another Detroit group- Gallery - "Nice To Be with You". a great love song.
TD
By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 01:19 pm: |
TD,
I don't know much about Gallery. I think they were produced by Mike Theodore and Dennis Coffey. Maybe they can fill you in on the group.
By Dennis Coffey (64.12.105.38 - 64.12.105.38) on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 01:30 pm: |
Hi TD. Jim Gold from the Gallery still lives here in Detroit. Mike Theodore talks to him once in awhile. Mike and I discovered Jim and another acoustic guitarist playing at a club on Eight Mile Road in Detroit. The place was jammed. We recorded the Gallery for Clarence Avant and Sussex Records and had three hits from their first album. Terry Knight used to sit in on drums with the Royaltones when we played clubs. I played a psychedelic jazz set with Lyman Woodard (organ)and Melvin Davis (drums) at the Grande Ballroom in Detroit. We opened for the MC5. We also did a gig for John Sinclair at the Michigan State Fair grounds and Ted Nugent was nice enough to let me use his stack of guitar amplifiers. Last year I sat in with Johnny B. (drummer) and Jim McCarty (guitarist) from the first Mitch Ryder Detroit Wheels band. I think Detroiters all seem to interconnect no matter what type of music we play.
Dennis Coffey
By TD (205.188.197.187 - 205.188.197.187) on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 01:43 pm: |
Dennis you are among the best. Of course along with Ralph.
I have to make sure that my next purchase is one of your classics.
Thanks for the info.
PS
It's so nice to be with all of you -on Soulful Detroit.
TD
By 65 memories (66.72.182.187 - 66.72.182.187) on Saturday, August 17, 2002 - 07:40 pm: |
Dennis...
It's great hearing information from those actually involved. Did you ever play with Lyman at Cobb's Corner when he had the Organization? Seems to me there were a number of talented musicians in that group at one time or another, including Norma Jean Bell.
By Dennis Coffey (152.163.189.129 - 152.163.189.129) on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 04:12 pm: |
Hi 65 memories. I played with Lyman and Melvin Davis for about three years before Cobbs. We were at the Frolic Showbar and Morey Bakers. A few years ago Lyman put on a show at Sullys and invited all of us who had played with him over the years to perform. I played It's your Thing, Taurus and Scorpio. Melvin Davis played drums. Then Norma Bell played and Robert Lowe also played. Lyman had a video made of the event. It was a packed house and we all had a great time! I even got to visit with Frantic Ernie one last time.
Dennis Coffey
By recordboyusa (208.61.5.193 - 208.61.5.193) on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 06:07 pm: |
There are so many links between white teen garage bands, and our soul heroes. All anyone needs to do is look at a band such as the Underdogs, who recorded for the Motown subsidiary VIP, for a resplendent mix of the two styles.
And a look up and down the roster of Impact records shows great artists in both styles, from Jock Mitchell, to the Lollipops, to the Sixpence, the Sheppards, and the Human Beings.
RE Gallery: Of course I need to look for a Florida link to everything, so here it is: their follow-up hit, "Big City Miss Ruth Ann", was originally done by a Miami group called the Heroes of Cranberry Farm!
Jeff Lemlich
http://www.limestonerecords.com
By Sue (152.163.207.71 - 152.163.207.71) on Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 06:34 pm: |
Jeff,
That was the cool thing about the Detroit scene in the '60s -- people -- and radio stations -- weren't as freaked out about categorizing music and only playing certain types. It all cross pollinated much more ...
By john c (12.2.233.107 - 12.2.233.107) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 07:28 pm: |
I'm not from Michigan, nor have I ever followed Alice Cooper, but I know Dick Wagner from the excellent live Lou Reed album Rock And Roll Animal where he teamed with Steve Hunter.
By Willy (209.142.215.168 - 209.142.215.168) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 09:29 pm: |
Well talking with the Underdogs,Tony & Chris recently. They said that they recorded 18 tracks for Motown. Unfortunately only three have been released. One 45, Love's Gone Bad/Mojo Hanna and a cover of the Temp's The Way You Do The Things You Do on the comp Motown does Motown. The 18 tracks don't include the material on the Hideout label. For my money the best blue-eyed soul act from the 60's is Scott Morgan and the Rationals.Imagine what they could have done with Motown producers.
By Millie (207.148.197.36 - 207.148.197.36) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 09:31 pm: |
Hi John,
Terry Knight started his radio career in Flint, Michigan as one of the "Jones Boys" on WTRX. He then broke into the Detroit radio market at top rated CKLW (the "Big 8") doing the 7p-midnight shift. Tom Shannon replaced him in 1964 when he moved here from Buffalo. Terry happened to meet up with the Rolling Stones around 1965, and was billed as the "5th Rolling Stone"...he travelled with the band for a year or so, then started his own singing career on Lucky 11 Records which was his own label. He appeared frequently at the Chessmate on Livernois and Six Mile in Detroit, however, as Ralph mentioned, never really made big as a singer. He did, however, have a fantastic ear for music, and when he started producing Grand Funk Railroad, his career and theirs skyrocketed. I last spoke with Terry right before the 1998 Radio/Records Reunion. He was living in Yuma, Arizona, and was writing his autobiography. Terry was a very good friend of mine, one whom I hold in very high esteem.
By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4 - 209.100.86.4) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 09:32 pm: |
In this month's MOJO magazine, the album COLD FACT by the artist Rodriguez is featured. It's a who's who of the Soulful Detroit.com board. Recorded at Terra Shirma - Produced by Mike Theodore & Dennis Coffey - Bob Babbit, Andrew Smith, Dennis Coffey, & Mike Theodore all played on it. I've never heard of it until I read the article. I hear it's big in Australia.
The MC5 movie is playing in Chicago on Thursday, August 22.
By Sue (64.244.93.44 - 64.244.93.44) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 09:52 pm: |
It was very cool to hear the Underdogs' "Love's Gone Bad" on WKNR this past Saturday ...
I agree, I'd love to hear what Motown producers could have done with Scott Morgan. There's still time!
By Willy (209.142.215.168 - 209.142.215.168) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:12 pm: |
Actually Rodriguez recorded two records on RCA.
He also had an early single on Impact. You can still find Cold Fact as an import on CD, There is also a live CD put out by Sony UK. You can still bump into Rodriguez at some local shows as he is friends with some of the newer Detroit bands. And yes, he still lives in Detroit.
By TD (12.126.74.86 - 12.126.74.86) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 11:14 pm: |
One of the all time great bands is from Michigan.
Tommy James and The Shondells.
They are from Niles Michigan.
They should definitely be in Rock And Roll Hall of Fame.
Any producers on this site have any good stories about them?
TD
By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4 - 209.100.86.4) on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 03:11 pm: |
I thought Tommy James & the Shondells recorded in New York City.
By Ritchie (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 04:04 pm: |
Really digging into the memory banks here.... If I recall correctly, their debut "Hanky Panky" was first issued in 1964 on a Michigan label (Snap) then picked up for national distribution - two years later - by Roulette in New York, after being rediscovered by a Pittsburgh deejay. I guess the first 45 was cut in Michigan, but I believe their subsequent hits were recorded in New York. (I seem to remember the name Bo Gentry as producer, but I could be wrong!) BTW, by the time Hanky Panky was a hit, the original "Shondells" had split, so it's a different group on the later recordings.
By oldredfordette (68.62.11.148 - 68.62.11.148) on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 04:17 am: |
I saw the Frost in a bar in Alpena in around 1978-79.
Did anybody go to dances at Mercy High School and (the old) Catholic Central? I saw Cub Koda and Brownsville Station there a number of times. Also Teengarden and Van Winkle.
Also, remember the ALSAC shows for teenages who collected money for St. Jude's Children's Hospital? They had them at the Olympia and at Cobo. For a dollar and your ALSAC badge, you could see Bob Seeger System, Mitch Ryder/Wheels, R. Dean Taylor, Brooklyn Bridge, Parliament/Funkadelic (first grown man in a diaper I ever saw), Andy Kim, god hours of music. A decent mix of local rock and national bubblegum acts.
By ErikT.O. (64.228.108.37 - 64.228.108.37) on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 09:57 am: |
My nomination for strangest Detroit music lp (that I own/ have heard)-> Jonothan Round! On Westbound, any recollections on that one?! /ErikT.O.
By Davie G (213.251.162.249 - 213.251.162.249) on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 12:11 pm: |
Erik,
Re Jonathan Round - I knew it existed but have never seen or heard it - what's it like ?
By LTLFTC (12.245.225.79 - 12.245.225.79) on Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 04:29 pm: |
I remember listening to my friend's Jonathan Round lp around '72 and kind of dismissing it as 'another one of those over-produced warbly folkie' albums (didn't Dave VanDepitte do the strings Erik?). A year or so later the same friend is promoting concerts in Battle Creek, Mi., I'm working as his flunky, and we decide to book Jonathan as an opening act 'cause he's fairly cheap and we'd at least heard of him. Anyway, the night of the concert, Jonathan, a hefty bearded fella , ambles out and he's AMAZING. I don't know what it is, exactly, but he's spellbinding; just him with an accoustic guitar and he's got 2400 people* in the palm of his hand (people who were most certainly there strictly to see the headliner-probably Black Oak Arkansas or REO Speedwagon or somebody). For his finale, he does "Sympathy for the Devil" and has the light-guy shine one spot onto his face, which Jonathan contorts and somehow turns bright red. Normally I'd consider something like that a hammy, over-the-top parlor trick, but it was so appropriate in a had-to-be-there kind of way. I never heard of him again until a few years ago when I saw some mention of him doing Actor's Workshops in the Detoit area. If I ever run across his album again, I'm going to give it another listen-he was great live.
Steve K.
* 2400 seaters seem to be another phenomena from a bygone era. Imagine-live music in a venue larger than a coffeehouse/corner bar and yet smaller than a sports arena. I would imagine performers that would best benefit from that size hall have been hardest hit by the post-Reagan economic era.
By john c (12.81.195.94 - 12.81.195.94) on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 05:22 am: |
Millie-Thanks for the info on Terry Knight. This forum is amazes me.
And Mark Speck knows Tom King! Too bad we can't expand this to Cleveland.
John
By Kent (205.188.198.189 - 205.188.198.189) on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 05:57 am: |
Dear Soulkicker,
You will see a connection between the musical Detroit of old and new when I begin releasing material from my new recording company late this year or early next(pulling my suspenders with pride)! 'Nuff said!
By Ritchie (62.254.0.7 - 62.254.0.7) on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 08:56 am: |
Sorry, Julian - I had to smile at your aside there. In the UK, we call them braces (as in the phrase "belt and braces"). Gave me an image like Tim Curry in the Rocky Horror Show ;o)
In British parlance, "suspenders" were that piece of lingerie that ladies wore to hold their stockings up!
By Willy (209.142.215.186 - 209.142.215.186) on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 01:45 pm: |
Hey Kent, I work with a lot of the 60's & 70's rock and roll performers from the Detroit area. What sort of things are you talking about releasing? please contact me at wwilson@wdetfm.org, I'd like to hear more about it.
By basso&aol.com (152.163.204.46 - 152.163.204.46) on Thursday, August 22, 2002 - 02:10 pm: |
Rodriguez isalive and well and lives in Detroit. I did a show with him last month. The audiences absolutely LOVE him.
He tours Africa and Australia semi-regularly. On his last tour, he 'borrowed' Eric Claptons band to take with him.
I saw the video of the tour and it seemed like everybody in the audience knew all the lyrics.
Amazing!
Joe Podorsek