By Pgunn (12.233.165.71 - 12.233.165.71) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 04:53 am:

Isn't it funny, that Get Ready is a great song, a favorite of fans, incorporated in the Tempts' show, even today, yet it is the song that signalled the end of Smokey Robinson's hold on the Tempts?

Was it that bad?

By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 08:52 am:

An interesting subject, legend has it that 'get ready' did not meet Berry gordy's crossover requirements, it did not achieve a high enough chart position in the US (I can't remember it exactly,i think it got to top thirty only) this was not good enough in berry's opinion for one of the premier division groups.
However, if you look at Whitfield's time with the tempts there are records that he failed to achieve high chart positions with also. This suggests to me that it was more of a political thing rather than simply move to oust smokey.
Those from the US may find it intriging that in the UK 'get ready' was not released until 1969.When DID become a chart success.
I have noticed that there are at least two different mixes of this song in circulation,someone please confirm.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 09:18 am:

I'm sure there are at least two mixes of the original Get Ready, but there's also a re-recorded version cut in 1991 with the then-current line-up.

Actually, the original was released earlier here, on TMG 557 in 1966. The 1969 reissue was indeed a big hit in the UK, at a time when we were apparently going through a period of reissue-mania. Also hitting the charts around the same time were Dancing In The Street, This Old Heart Of Mine, Edwin Starr's S.O.S. (on Polydor!) and Jr Walker's Road Runner.

That neatly explains why Motown Chartbusters Volume Three (UK release), issued in early 1970 has so many mid-sixties tracks on it! Sadly, the Temps' follow-up (I Know) I'm Losing You failed to follow Get Ready into the charts. (I still think Ain't Too Proud To Beg would have been a better choice.)

Non-Motown but also charting was Bob & Earl's 1963 classic Harlem Shuffle.

By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 09:42 am:

Ritchie

I have always been curious about why the re-issue mania started in the UK,surely around the 1968-70 time there was enough new output from Motown.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 09:58 am:

Hi SB

It can't be a coincidence that this was exactly the time that what became the "Northern Soul" movement was in its infancy. A lot of the new Soul records were moving closer to Funk, and with some fans - not necessarily in the North, there was a yearning for the classic sixties sound. I supsect that EMI, as Motown's licensees at the time, simply decided to try and tap into that market. After all, none of the reissued 45s that charted had achieved major UK chart placings at the time of their first release here. The chances are, many kids bought them, not realising they weren't "new" records.

Not Motown-related, but I think this illustrates the point. A friend of mine worked in a local record shop at that time, and he reported a young kid coming in and asking for a "new single" he'd heard on the radio. He didn't know the artist, but the song was called Summertime Blues. It was eventually identified as Eddie Cochran of course. The lad didn't realise it was an "oldie" from 1958.

By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 11:27 am:

I had similar experiences many times over being one of them kids you speak of.We simply were not aware that the American soul/R&b market had moved on,perhaps it is a testament to many of those records that many of us thought they were brand new products.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 11:41 am:

I think that was the beauty of the time. Those five-year old records still sounded contemporary, and sat quite comfortably alongside the newly-recorded music. It certainly wasn't a case of "nostalgia" for the mid-sixties - those reissues were still an active part of the current music scene, as far as most pop fans were concerned. I wonder how many youngsters even spotted the original publishing date on the label?

By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 11:50 am:

I have video footage of The Temptations singing "Get Ready" from Robin Seymour's Swingin' Time TV show. From memory - it was released in the States around Sept 1965.
Graham

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130 - 62.31.32.130) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 12:06 pm:

I started to hear for the first time the amount of soul releases that had evaded me in the mid sixties, around 1973, almost 10 years after they were recorded. They were fresh and new sounding to me, compared to some of the drivel that was being released and in the charts. Cromby coats with a handkerchief, red socks, brogues and stay press with a drizzle of Gary Glitter - no thanks!! Thank god the Philly Sound came along when it did too. I remember the early seventies funk music clearing the dance floor and closing one discothèque in Hull. When the dance floor filled, a glance at the turntable revealed a Motown record.

By david, glasgow, scotland (213.122.24.112 - 213.122.24.112) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 12:24 pm:

Without question, the re-issue market was prompted by the infant Northern Soul scene (it wasn't even known as such at that time).

Going to the Twisted Wheel we were able to hear records that we had missed that first time around. These records being rare or semi rare created an extreme bond in the sub conscious. Many tracks were also of high quality, a hugely potent mix.

There was also the bond created by a group of people enjoying something which was 'theirs and noone else's'. I can easily recall going to the Wheel and getting a huge buzz just discussing these records with like minded people.

As prices rose, so stepped in the record companies with re-releases. Also stepping in were the bootleggers.

The demand being created, as the scene was rising, was quite astonishing.

Tonight, I will describe my latest visit to the heart of Northern Soul - Stoke on Trent, Saturday evening.

By HW (68.37.217.106 - 68.37.217.106) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 12:50 pm:

When Whitfield got the shot over Smokey, GET READY had hit #29 Pop. Take a closer look: this was after a string of Smokey productions on the Tempts had barely cracked the Top 20.

While MY GIRL had been #1, his only #1 hit with the group by the way, its followups were #18, 17, 13... I think Gordy saw a trend in what Smokey's style was doing for the group AT THAT TIME. While we all know and love every song and, for sure, and each of Smokey's tracks were Top 5 R&B in the U.S. if not outright #1 hits - in fact, GET READY was #1 R&B smash - it was apparent to BG the Tempts' moment in the Pop stratosphere was slipping.

I think it was simply the charts talking and the feel from the QC people that Whitfield had the groove for the group. Can't be politics, Smokey was a company VP and, understand this, he was probably lucky by his closeness to Berry that GET READY was issued in the first place. Much as we love the song and the great double-drumming, that's a truth I've heard: BEG was to be voted for release at the meeting but BG overruled everyone for Smokey.

For Whit & the Temps, the next 4 singles after BEG were each Top 10 Pop hits. Their lowest charting singles for the next few years were generally low Top 15 / Top 20; one, PLEASE RETURN YOUR LOVE TO ME, was #26. And sure, UNITE THE WORLD was #33 but the next, JUST MY IMAGINATION, was #1. I don't feel politics helped Whitfield; by the late '60s it may have hurt him. He was relenetless and pissed people off. But nothing got in his way. His productions made sure of that.

Hope that's interesting to some re GET READY.

By HW (68.37.217.106 - 68.37.217.106) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 12:54 pm:

I meant to add that the reason Gordy gave his Pop Chart ultimatum re GET READY was because he had overruled the staff on that song vs. AIN'T TOO PROUD TO BEG. If it didn't hit as he thought it might, well, Whitfield wins the next round.

By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 01:30 pm:

Interesting stuff Harry, i had no idea Smokey's efforts were under pressure even before 'get ready', I know that whitfield never ceased recording them even since the early days,He must have been one determined character.
It's not many record companies that get the luxury of choosing between talents like Smokey and Whitfield for their artists!

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 02:28 pm:

Harry,
It's true, Norman was capable of pissing people off, but Harry Balk told me one day he wished he had three Norman Whitfields working in the studios. Norman WAS relentless and he worked like a mule when he got into the studio.

By HW (12.110.192.128 - 12.110.192.128) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 04:12 pm:

True, Norman could piss people off but as Ralph relates, he was the way he was because he knew he could deliver - and then he did.

By Frankm (212.250.156.11 - 212.250.156.11) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 04:17 pm:

The Great Motown re issue revival was also influenced by the BBC's radio 1 which had slightly greater needle time that the previous light programme, and was aping the pirate radio format which was based on US to 40 programming with oldies. DJ Tony Blackburn who had the big Radio1 breakfast audience was (and still is ) a Motown fan and played the early and mid sixties Motown tracks as oldies. These records and songs were being played in the big ballrooms as well as the soul clubs. There had been succesful tours by the Motown acts.
It led to some strange chart listings. The Isley brothers had three Motown hits in the UK charts after they had left the label in 1969. Their 4th chart hit and their lowest placing went to the contemporary T neck recording It's Your thing (released in the UK on Major Minor)

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 05:16 pm:

Good point, Frank. Tony Blackburn was a real champion of Motown on Radio One. It should also be mentioned that Alan Freeman, who hosted the weekly Top 30 show Pick Of The Pops, relentlessly played Dancing In The Street on POTP and his Radio Luxembourg programme until it charted. In the sleevenotes to Motown Chartbusters 3 he commented, "Always knew there'd be British justice for Martha's 'DANCING IN THE STREET."

Regarding the Isleys' belated Motown successes in the UK, it struck me as quite cheeky when Pye Records were quick to jump in with a collection of their Wand sides (on the budget-priced Marble Arch label). The title was "Take Some Time Out For the Isley Brothers" - which tied in quite neatly with the trio's then-current Tamla Motown reissue.

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.153 - 136.2.1.153) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 05:35 pm:

w.r.t. the Eddie Cochran anecdote above. Blue Cheer and The Who both released cover versions of the song "Summertime Blues" circa '68-'69, which may partly explain the kids' interest in it.

Regards,

Ken

By TD (152.163.197.186 - 152.163.197.186) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 11:03 pm:

To my Brit friends

From everything that I have always read, the British were always extremely big fans of the Four Tops. I understand that Brian Epstein actually booked their early shows in the U.K.
Being a Detroiter, I have always thought that the Four Tops were the best, I did not feel that they got the same status in the U.S. that you all have given them throughout the years-heck " A Simple Game" wasn't even a hit in the states, and it was almost number one in England.
I would love to hear your thoughts on my favorite group.
I finally got a copy of the immortal "In Levi Stubbs Tears"- by one of your own- Billy Bragg.
Great song
I suppose that song sort of sums it all up.

TD

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 11:21 pm:

Hi TD

Wow - Simple Game - one great 45. It's something of a joker in the pack. Who'd have thought of teaming the Four Tops with the Moody Blues?

I saw them Live here when that was their current single, and it really went down a storm - late 1971, I seem to recall. If memory serves me correctly, I think Lawrence took some of the lead vocals on this. (Correct me if I'm wrong!)

Well, if the UK seemed to hold the Tops in higher esteem than the US, that's a simple question to answer. We always loved the guys, and still do.

By Vickie (64.12.97.11 - 64.12.97.11) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 04:25 am:

I love all of this wisdom here!!!
So awesome!!!!
Vickie

By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130 - 62.31.32.130) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 08:49 am:

That's right Vickie - wisdom. Something to get your teeth into!

I became more aware of The Four Tops only in 1973 when I heard their original version of 'The same old Song'!! As a 16 year old I had bought this great song by a group called 'The Weathermen' on B&C records. I loved the vamp in it. When I found out it was actually Jonathan King and The Tops version was almost 6 years older I was surprised, but pleasantly of course. When The Tops moved onto Probe, I think they delivered some good tunes in the 70's, 'Are you man enough' being one of my favourites. I was lucky enough to see them and The Temps earlier this year here in London. I will support their concerts forever. Pure class!

By Livonia Ken (136.2.1.101 - 136.2.1.101) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 01:32 pm:

I not only would never have though of teaming the Four Tops with the Moody Blues, but if I had to guess which of the Moody Blues would pen the song that the Tops would record, my last guess would have been Mike Pinder. It is an absolutely great record, though. Shows you what I know.

Regards,
Ken

By FrankM (62.188.122.163 - 62.188.122.163) on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 04:23 pm:

The Four Tops second album as I knew on Top cracked it with the UK dance crowd hit the op ten and hung on in the Top Forty for 23 weeks in 1966. At any party it was a favouite alongside Otis Blue and The Drifters I'll take you where the music's playing. I've dug out theh Guinness book of UK hit albums. The follow up Four Tops live came out in 67 and stuck around for 72 weeks. The Tops toured the UK on a regular basis appeared on TV variety shows and were one of teh few Motown grups where the fans knew the name of more tha one member. Something about You, Same old Song and Shake me Wake me were staple songs in the repetoire the late sixties UK beat groups. They had a big female following too which always helps.

By john lester (213.1.135.77 - 213.1.135.77) on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 08:12 pm:

The Tops always seem to be the UK's favourites and I think they still are....

The Tops had a huge male following too......at my school, even the pschedelic heavies who were crazy on Cream, Nice, Move, Kinks etc rated the Tops....I recall one chum who bought things like Smoke's "My Friend Jack", Electric Prune's Gonna Get Me To This World On Time" coming to school one day telling us all he bought "I'm In A Different World". He went up in my estimation that day.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 08:25 pm:

At my school, there was a very strict divide: the "Progressive" fans on one side, and the Soul fans on the other. I can't name all the Prog Rock fans, but here's a complete list of the Soul-heads:

Dave

Me

By TD (152.163.189.129 - 152.163.189.129) on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 08:35 pm:

Hey My Brit friends

Keep talking about my favorite group the Four Tops.
I had mentioned ,on the Levi Stubbs thread, my own personal experience of meeting Levi Stubbs at an outdoor concert in the Detroit area in 1974. Please take a gander, as it was truely one of the highlights of my life. Great guy and a great group.

You know they are coming up on 50 years together
(half a century) and it would be a tremendous tour if they can get Levi back. Wouldn't it be great to have all the great English stars back them up and pay tribute to them if and when they tour in England i.e. Moody Blues, Paul McCartney, Cliff Richards etc.
Billy Bragg could open the concerts with his Levi Stubbs tribute.

What do you all think?

TD

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 08:41 pm:

TD

I take your meaning but in reality, such a gathering would draw the limelight right off the "real" stars of the show - the Tops themselves.

Better to have an Anniversary Tour where they can shine without anyone's attention diverted elsewhere.

By Bradburger (172.186.38.237 - 172.186.38.237) on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 09:22 pm:

Soulboy

The only mix of Get Ready that I've heard that is different is the Stereo L.P mix. It sounds to me like it has a different vocal take to the Single version.

Pesonally I prefer the single mix. For a start it has more life to it to it and Melvin Franklin's booming bass voice is higer in the mix and there is an extra blistering guitar part (Eddie Willis perhaps?) throughout the song.

I would love to know if a stereo mix exists that matches more closley to the single version.

Over to Harry!

Cheers

Paul

By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 10:03 pm:

BRADBURGER

You are right that single mix IS the more livelier of the two, the guitar backbeats are heavier in the mix. the stereo mix sounds more refined, allthough that's not always a good thing.

By Bradburger (172.183.205.132 - 172.183.205.132) on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 10:53 pm:

Soulboy

I know this subject has come up elsewhere on this forum but it's always interesting to hear and compare the stereo mixes to the mono's.

I think in the case of Get Ready the mono mix makes that record. Although it doesn't sound quite as clear and a little tinny compared to the other single mixes of the period it does give the record it's character.

I think one of the things that impressed me when I first became interested in Motown was how the Mono mix could often give the record a sound and character of it's own. This seems unique to Motown and was definitely something that made up part of "The Motown Sound".

After listening to the single mixes of certain songs the stereo versions seem to lack something. This is particularly apparent on 'Heaven Must Have Sent You', Reach Out' and Loves Gone Bad'.

Btw, It may be worth checking out the thread "Motown Mono & Single Mixes" elswhere on this forum. It has some good info by engineer Bob Olhsson.

Cheers

Paul

By john lester (213.1.136.91 - 213.1.136.91) on Sunday, August 04, 2002 - 10:55 pm:

The 45 mixes were always the best..

The Temps backing vocals are out of this world on the 45.

Generally I find the stereo versions lack "punch"...as in the stereo gets your feet tapping, the 45 gets you off your backside to dance!!

By HW (68.37.217.106 - 68.37.217.106) on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 12:58 am:

Speaking of Get Ready & Smokey and mono & stereo and JL's 'feet tapping' comment... I helped coordinate the master for the limited edition soundtrack CD for the Temptations' NBC-TV mini-series. For the CD we mastered the Temps' songs in stereo, since a soundtrack generally appeals to a wider audience and stereo seemed to be the way to go.

Because Smokey Robinson wrote and sang the movie's theme song he was given a copy of the master before it was manufactured. It was the first time I had any real dealings with SR, even though it was through an intermediary. The much-anticipated word I got back was that... something was not quite right. That for the movie he was tappin' his feet but for the soundtrack his old productions for the Temps just went flat. I was completely paranoid that something was wrong with the mastering and that I had lost ground before I even got started with Smoke.

Then I asked what he was comparing it too and discovered that for the movie's 'temp [temporary] music' track, the producers had used the Temps box set - which for the classic recordings is in the orignal mono. I went back and had the Temps' songs remastered in the original mono. THAT got Smokey's toes tappin'... and that's how it came out, albeit briefly.

Again, I know some of the esteemed contrbutors here had a more original and direct communication with SR and those songs, but thought I'd share how those original mixes can still move you.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228 - 68.32.101.228) on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 05:11 am:

Those original mixes are the difference between nostolgia where you can intellectually understand how it was a hit and the experience of realizing that many of those singles could easily be a hit for the first time today. I don't think very many people in today's industry understand that there is such a thing as a hit mix. Mixing has turned into mostly straightening out bad arrangements and bad recording engineering.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228 - 68.32.101.228) on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 05:33 am:

My experience engineering for Norman Whitfield was that he always had a very strong belief about what was right or wrong. He would fight for anything he felt was right, fight against anything he felt was wrong and wouldn't worry about anything he felt didn't matter. His judgement was dead accurate in my experience and he wouldn't put up with any B.S. While he rubbed some people the wrong way, he got results because he wouldn't accept anything but your very best. I always found him inspiring to work with.

By Gary Rosen (12.234.95.0 - 12.234.95.0) on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 07:30 am:

Is it fair to say that the producers and engineers put more effort into the mono mix since that was the more important mix, at least during the era when 45s still reigned?

- Gary Rosen

By Bradburger (172.183.104.23 - 172.183.104.23) on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 09:55 am:

Harry, thanks for that little snippet of information.

Bob, I totally agree with what you are saying. The mix could make or break a record. I think there are lot of lessons that could be learned from you guys by todays engineers when it comes to mixing.

Gary, you're right. As Bob says in the thread I mentioned in my previous post http://soulfuldetroit.com/forum/messages/1/577.html?1019806792 the Mono could be mixed over a number of days were as the Stereo's were done in as little as 20 minutes.

I think maybe in the digital age a lot of engineering skills have gone out the window.

But thats another story!

Cheers

Paul

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:21 am:

Speaking of "mono priority" in the sixties, let's remember that when George Martin and the Beatles mixed the Sergeant Pepper album, they slaved for hours to achieve a final master - in mono. When they were satisfied with the end result, they all went home to get some well-earned rest, leaving the assistant engineer to knock off a quick stereo mix.

By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 10:33 am:

I remember a radio documentary many years ago.In which someone mentioned that Phil spector also insisted on a mono format.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 11:10 am:

In fact, in the seventies, his slogan was:

BACK TO MONO

By Sue (205.188.209.48 - 205.188.209.48) on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 01:27 pm:

Wasn't the Phil Spector box set called "Back to Mono"? That's what the promo t-shirt says ...

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 03:44 pm:

Sue

I do believe you're right, though I don't think we were treated to that over here. But... I still have my copies of the "Phil Spector Wall of Sound" albums volumes 1 - 6, issued in 1975. But just to confuse matters, the first volume - the Ronettes - is in stereo!

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228 - 68.32.101.228) on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 05:22 pm:

Mono was pretty much the standard until around 1969 with two noteable exceptions. Atlantic did stereo mixes and folded them down for mono using a device called a Compatable Stereo Generator and RCA here in Nashville mixed live to stereo rather than to mono as RCA in New York and Chicago did.

The reason mono is still important is that a stereo mix does not retain the intended musical balance when folded down to mono.

By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 08:22 am:

I agree with the purists on this issue, that the
mix should be as per original,if that is mono in the majority of recordings. when did the practice of stereo only mixes become commonplate anyway??

By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 08:35 am:

As Bob said, it was around 1969 in the US, and the UK was probably about the same time. EMI discontinued simultaneous stereo and mono releases of albums here in 1970. As regards singles, I suspect that the proliferation of local commercial radio stations, broadcasting in FM stereo might have been the deciding factor in the UK industry's switch to stereo 45s in the mid-70s.

By FrankM (212.250.156.11 - 212.250.156.11) on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 12:07 pm:

In addition there had been a big marketing drive in selling HI Fi and stereo equipment to the baby boomer generation just coming into real earning power in the early seventies. The album market had overtaken the singles market. Albums were built around hit singles EG Roxy Music's first album must have been one of the last chart albums to be issued without a current or previous hit single. Thus tracks were recorded in true stereo for albums so why bother doing an additional stereo mix when the single was gonna be played with the then new lightweight cartridges.

Certainly the number of radio stations still broadcasting in mono in the states in the early seventies meant promos with a stereo and mono mix of the same song on either side. This caused great resentment in the UK northern collecting scene where promo copies were valued more than issues but those sought after B sides would not be on the US promo


Pop music is governed by artistic, cultural and technical changes.

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228 - 68.32.101.228) on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 04:07 pm:

Pop music formats are governed entirely by what the stores are willing to stock. Records are primarily what is called an impulse purchase where people walk into a store with the intention of buying one title and then purchase several additional titles based on finding them appealing. The larger the number of titles a store stocks, the more money they make.

Separate mono releases and vinyl BOTH went away entirely because stores refused to stock duplicate titles in several different formats. In the case of the Compact Disk, the stores got a five-fold increase in margin and were willing to dump vinyl even though the CD had less than a quarter the installed base of players. There's a very good chance the CD would have gone the way of the 8-track cartridge had there not been this immense financial incentive to retail stores.

As much as we recording engineers love technology, there has never been ANY correlation between technology and popular music other than ones related directly to economics. The recent dot-bombs were totally predictable to many of us in the recording industry because the economics never added up.

By FrankM (62.188.142.245 - 62.188.142.245) on Sunday, August 11, 2002 - 05:06 pm:

Bob.

Never been ANY correlation between technology and popular music. The length of a popular song ended up as the length of one side of a ten inch single on average. I do realise that I missed out economics but I think the pblic were sold on the idea that CD's were indestructable. Most of them did settle for playing records without scratch and hiss and without getting up from their chair to turn an album over.

Was it economics, the introduction of amplified instruments or caning musical tastes or te new culture of the previously non existnt concept of teenagers that led to teh demise of the big bands?

Yours with tongue in cheek

FrankM