By Gene (165.247.104.29 - 165.247.104.29) on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 02:41 am:

I am wondering if the list members who were there could comment on the use of the organ at Motown during the 60's. It seems to me there were only a few songs where you can prominently hear the organ (e.g. many Earl Van Dyke songs, Mary Wells' What's Easy for Two), so I was wondering if there was one located in Studio A or whether it was either brought in for certain sessions or used at another studio. Was there a particular producer who liked to use the organ? Was it an arranger who made the decision to use it or perhaps a producer? Is it there on many songs and it is just my untrained ear that is missing it? Thanks.

Gene

By RonS. (65.30.225.13 - 65.30.225.13) on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 02:55 am:

Gene,
I wasn't there but I was involved with the Motown Museum and there was a Hammond organ in Studio A. As far as its use, the musicaians can comment on that better than I can.

In 1995 we found the original organ, which had been sold off, and restored it to its home in Studio A.

By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 07:26 am:

Just from a listeners point of view,the organ - hammond,i think, was used quite often,and to good effect on quite a few songs. By about 67 this seemed to fall out of favour with the producers as they seemed to utilise the smaller wurlitzer or fender rhodes type electric piano as heard on 'grapevine'.
That's not to say it was Never used,but it's use became increasingly scarce.

By John Lester (213.1.131.177 - 213.1.131.177) on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 11:25 am:

What type of organ was used on Don't Mess With Bill...

By Dennis Coffey (64.12.97.11 - 64.12.97.11) on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 01:14 pm:

Hi Gene. There was always an organ in the Motown Studio when I was there. Usually Earl played the acoustic piano and Johnny Griffith played organ or other electric keyboards. I personally took members of the Motown Museum and the Henry Ford Musuem into the studio and showed them where everyone sat and what instruments were in the studio including drums. When Motown had an exhibit in the Henry Ford Museum (I loaned them my Gibson Firebird for the exhibit), I told them and the Motown Museum it was stupid to have a bare studio with no instruments in it and call it a museum.

Dennis

By RonS (65.30.225.13 - 65.30.225.13) on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 02:01 pm:

Hi Dennis, I was one of the Motown Museum staff members that you showed where all the instruments, including the Hammond B-3 organ, used to be. I should point out our plan was never to have a bare studio, but we took your advice to heart. When you visited we already had the piano, drums and vibes in the studio.

Thanks for your help the info was invaluable.

Ron Swope

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 02:16 pm:

Studio A had a B-3 that was located in the back over-dub room. One thing I noticed when I last visited the studio in 1995 was that nothing was in it's proper place. For example, the Steinway was sitting in the middle of the floor and not in it's proper place at the front of the studio underneath the control room window. After reading Dennis' post I'm assuming that situation has been remedied.

By Dennis Coffey (152.163.207.82 - 152.163.207.82) on Sunday, July 28, 2002 - 10:17 pm:

Thanks Ron. I was glad to be able to help. What ever happened to the effects I donated to the museum?

Dennis

By RonS (65.30.225.13 - 65.30.225.13) on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 12:02 am:

Dennis
I am not sure what happen to your artifacts. I left in the spring of 1996 and the exhibit at Henry Ford was still in progress. I know that exhibition is in storage, so I would assume that your artifacts are well preserved. Mrs. Edwards is fanatical about keeping the collections intact.

Ron

By Billy_Wilson (205.188.209.48 - 205.188.209.48) on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 02:07 am:

Hello Group,
Billy Wilson of the Motown Alumni Association here. The artifacts will be exibited in the Motown Center that is to be erected either in mid 2003 or early 2004. The $23,000,000 project is to be located where the 6 story Motown building is on Woodward.Investors, Berry Gordy, and Universal Enterprise has donated to get the project done. Should be a great project for Detroit.

Billy

By Gene (165.247.104.114 - 165.247.104.114) on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 04:03 am:

Dennis:
Thanks for responding to my query. By the way, I was wondering if your book is available in the U.S.? I only found it on the Amazon.com site in the U.K.

Gene

By Frans Big Sister (151.199.237.77 - 151.199.237.77) on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 04:11 am:

--I have a copy of a terrific organ record
by Bert Keyes. It's on Clock Records. I
don't know if it's a Detroit label or not.
It's called Do Do Do Bah Ah, and was given
to me by that great radio presence, Rollye
James, who uses it as bumper music on her
radio show. Rollye has the most extensive
collection of old soul records I have ever heard.
She broadcasts Mon-Fri Midnight to 2 AM,Eastern,
from Phila's WPHL 1210AM. On Friday nites, she has
old music trivia and gives out some real nice prizes.
You can listen to her on the internet as she also streams the show. Marilyn
http://www.rollye.net/

By HW (68.37.217.106 - 68.37.217.106) on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 12:30 pm:

Speaking of which - just before Motown, Earl Van Dyke was the organist on a jazz album by the otherwise obscure saxophonist Fred Jackson. The album was titled "HOOTIN' & TOOTIN'" and first released on the Blue Note lable in 1962. There was a limited edition CD issued a few years ago and can sometimes be found on eBay or half.com. EVD takes a lot of solos and the music is cool, daddy-o...

By Phil Reeves (195.93.33.171 - 195.93.33.171) on Monday, July 29, 2002 - 04:36 pm:

Hi Frans Big Sister
What do you mean by "Bumper music"?.
That track you mentioned sounds interesting. Was
that the same Clock label that Dave Cortez had records on?.
Phil

By Frans Big Sister (151.199.242.57 - 151.199.242.57) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 01:09 am:

--Phil,
Bumper music is the music that usually is played
as the radio program comes on. Kind of intro
to the show. Usually, a host plays the same
song at the beginning of each show.
I don't know about Dave Cortez being on that label, Phil, but after
closer examination of the label, which is yellow
and has the clock numbers around the rim, I
see it was produced in N.Y.C. Looks to be a
real oldie, maybe from the late fifties.
I'm not an organ music enthusiest, but this song
is so great, that I keep playing it over and over.
My husband is about to bounce me out the door if
he hears it again. You should tune into Rollyes
show tonight on the internet. You can call
or email her, and ask her about Dave Cortez, as she gives out an 800 number to call into the show. Make sure you let her know what area you are calling/emailing in from, and mention this
site. I'm sure she knows the answer, as she seems
to have a photographic memory when it comes to
the subject of who did what on what record label
etc. Take care.
Marilyn

By Dennis Coffey (152.163.201.52 - 152.163.201.52) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 01:24 am:

Hi Gene. My book is not available over here yet but BeeCool Publishing is working on it.

Dennis

By Flynny (213.1.130.8 - 213.1.130.8) on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 06:12 pm:

The Bert Keyes track is from '61.

Soul Anoraks take note - there's also a great 45 by Johny McKinney on the same label! ;-)

By Frans Big Sister (151.199.238.136 - 151.199.238.136) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 03:56 am:

--Thanks for the info Flynny. By the way, my last
name, before I got married was Flynn.
Marilyn

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4 - 209.100.86.4) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 03:21 pm:

Hello All,
I went to the Motown Museum over the summer & the Hammond was sitting beneath(facing) the control room window. The Steinway was next, then the drum kit. The Vibraphone was all the way in the back & off to the right. I don't remember the
name of the man who was the tour guide, but he made the guys sing "My Girl" & the girls sang a Supremes song on the studio floor. Good Job!

The piano keys (on the piano) were in a pretty horrific state!

By Ed Wolfrum (165.247.230.15 - 165.247.230.15) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 03:31 pm:

Regarding the organ at Motown and United...

The Hammond at Motown was a B-3 at United it was a C-3. At Motown there was a direct output from the expression petal ahead of the amplifier. Even the organ was direct. I modified the United organ the same way with an OPAMP line driver mounted in the organ and a cannon connector line level output. It worked good to but no one wanted to use it as they wanted the Leslie sound. If you listen to the Earl Van Dyke 6 X 6 single, you will hear the Motown Hammond, sans Leslie, from the direct output on that record. Tom Nixon, former Motown engineer produced that project.

Pax,
Ed

By Bob Olhsson (68.32.101.228 - 68.32.101.228) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 04:13 pm:

I wasn't even aware that there was a direct feed on the Studio-A organ! It was used a great deal although rarely as a solo instrument or even for fills.

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4 - 209.100.86.4) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 05:55 pm:

Coupla (Couple of) great organ songs:
"Hold Me Oh My Darling" by Marvin & Tammi
"How Sweet It Is" by The Isley Brothers that was on the recent Motown Rarities CD. It actually has a great little organ solo. I guess they were both
around 1966/67 or so.

Question for Ralph/Dennis or anyone on this thread:

Did the instrument positions change throughout the
years at Motown. In the "Teen Town" video from 1964 the drumkit can be seen underneath the control room. Was this just done for the cameras?

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 07:46 pm:

Steve, I mentioned on some other thread that when I last visited the Studio A museum, it was set up all wrong. The Steinway grand was always lengthwise with the control room window. At the back of the piano was the amplifier for the guitars and that is where the guitarists sat. Now it gets a little foggy but I think, the wall to the right of the stairs and on the guitarists right hand side would be Jamerson, Jack Ashford, Bongo Eddy, and sometimes Pistol going down that wall. The two over-dub rooms would be at their backs and the Hammond B-3 was in the furthest O.D. room. The first O. D. room had vibes and such in it. Both rooms had windows looking into the studio. At the back of the studio would be a drummer...usually Uriel Jones. This is pretty much how it was with some variations from time to time.

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4 - 209.100.86.4) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 09:03 pm:

Thanks for the layout Ralph!

When I was there I got a kick out of the 30 year old Scotch tape marking various locations of equipment(cables, mics) that were on the walls. It added to the "lived in" feel.

By HW (12.110.192.128 - 12.110.192.128) on Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 09:54 pm:

the bass was also miked direct - always the outside track, #8, when Motown went to eight-track

By Dennis Coffey (205.188.209.48 - 205.188.209.48) on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 09:53 pm:

Hey Ralph, when I was there, Jack and Bongo were on my right but Jamerson was on my left against the left wall on his stool. Both drummers were against the far wall. I think the studio was rearranged from time to time.

Dennis

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Thursday, August 01, 2002 - 10:10 pm:

Dennis,
Apparently it was. I don't think I ever saw Jamerson on the left side, but why not. As I mentioned though, there were variations.

By RonS (65.30.225.13 - 65.30.225.13) on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 12:31 am:

Steve,
As a former Motown Museum staffer (1991 to 1996), I can address the state of the piano in Studio A. When we investigated in 1995 we found out the cost to restore the piano to its original condition was prohibitively expensive. So its restoration was put on our wishlist. I am sure that one day the restoration will be complete.

I'm glad they still give a quality tour. We have a lot a pride in Hitsville USA.

RonS

By Ralph Terrana (Ralph) (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 01:55 am:

RonS,
I would love to see the estimate for the restoration of the Steinway in Studio A. In piano restoration, there are many alternatives, and since this is a piano that, I'm assuming, is not used, I wonder why alternatives were not discussed?

By Steve Litos (209.100.86.4 - 209.100.86.4) on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 05:52 pm:

RonS,
I was impressed with the tour. The gentleman who gave the tour said that he makes an appearance in the "Standing In The Shadows Of Motown" film. I'd say second to the actual studio, the furnature
in Berry Gordy's apartment was "outa sight"!
As I was leaving, a busload of kids from Ohio was
entering. It sounded like they were getting a more
advanced tour.
-Steve

By Carl Dixon (62.31.32.130 - 62.31.32.130) on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 08:04 pm:

I mentioned the piano restoration to Steinway, London. I suggested as a PR move they should offer to refurbish the grand, which would give them and Motown extra publicity. Maybe I should try again!

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 11:21 pm:

Carl,
If Steinway does consider ths,I can put them in touch with my good friend Tom Pettit who has been doing Steinway work for years and is an extremely gifted piano man. Tom is well known with Steinway, NY, so it is possible Stienway, London may be aware of him.

By RonS (65.30.225.13 - 65.30.225.13) on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 04:22 am:

Ralph,

I don't remember how much the restoration cost was. Its been 7 years and my memory get foggier as the years go by. The biggest problem was that the lack of humidity in Studio A was causing hidden damage. We stabilized that problem when a climate control system was installed during the 1995 Hitsville restoration. There were alternatives but they were not in the budget after spending nearly $1 million on the restoration of the building and the extension on the back of the adjacent building.

In the museum business if you can't afford to restore an artifact to its original condition, then you stabilize it so it doesn't get any worse and thats what we did.

As far as what happen after 1996 with the restoration of the piano, I don't know. But I'm sure the museum probably has had more pressing items on the budget. It is a non-profit organization and money is always tight.

I can tell you that Steinway was not interested in restoring the piano as a donation when they were contacted in 1994. They were very nice about it...they had budget wows, too. But that was then.

Ron Swope

By RonS (65.30.225.13 - 65.30.225.13) on Saturday, August 03, 2002 - 04:43 am:

Steve,
I'm glad you loved the furniture in the apartment. We had a blast restoring it. We worked from old family photos and the recollections of Raynoma Gordy Singleton, Berry Gordy's wife during that time period.

About 50% of the furniture, including the bedroom suite and the orange loveseat were original pieces from the apartment. The bedroom furniture was in the garage of one Miss Ray's relatives. The loveseat was purchased at the estate sale of the late Uncle Joe Gordy, the brother of Pops Gordy. We never found out how the loveseat came into Joe Gordy's possession but we were glad to find it.

The furniture that is not original to the apartment is identical to the original settings. It took almost a year of going to estate sales, used furniture stores and antique stores before we found the right stuff.

By the way I hope the nightgown was still on the bed. That is authentic, too.

I really am glad you enjoyed it. The restoration was a labor of love.

Ron Swope