By John Lester via Gene Alpert (213.122.190.24 - 213.122.190.24) on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 08:05 am:| By John Lester via Gene Alpert (213.122.190.24 - 213.122.190.24) on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 08:05 am: |
This post was on my Motown list but it is TOO important not to circulate it to you guys here.
Gene Alpert posted it (huge thanks to him for it) and I for one was overwhelmed by it.
It concerns a film version of the James Jamerson book shown in Washington just a few weeks back. The showing was attended by loads of guys like us here and even being with like minded collectors made me really upset that I wasn't there. I missed out here but there is hope for us in Europe...so read on and enjoy.
Dear Motown listers:
By now most of you have seen the review below from MAA. I was fortunate to
have been able to attend this event last Friday night. I would like to give
you some additional information that I hope people on the list will find
interesting.
First, there was electicity in the air in the auditorium. It was very
classy to have this held at the Library of Congress. Arriving at about
6:15, the building was very quiet, but by 7 p.m., the 250 plus seat
auditorium was brimming with Motown diehard fans. One gentleman apparently
came all the way from LA just to attend the event.
The event was the premiere showing of Standing in the Shadows of Motown, a
film produced by Allan Slutsky, Paul Justman and Sandy Passman. Both
Slutsky and Justman were in attendance to introduce the film. They told the
audience that they expected to release the film first in some art/film
houses in the US, but especially to take the film to Europe. It will
eventually be released on DVD with additional footage not shown on the film.
They hope that through word of mouth the film will gain notoriety and demand
for increased exposure. As Allan said during the evening, tell everyone you
know about the film!
With some of James Jamerson's relatives in the audience, and Funk Brothers
Joe Messina, Johnny Griffith, Uriel Jones, Eddie Willis, and Joe Hunter
there as well, there was a great deal of anticipated excitement in the air.
Slutsky encouraged the crowd to "interact" with the movie, so if we felt
like singing, dancing, or clapping during the film that was just fine. And
many did just that--with such great music, it was hard not to, of course!
The film helped us to get to know many of the Funk brothers that we have
known so little about. Slutsky told the story about being in a restaurant
with Funk Brother Robert White when the song My Girl came over the speaker.
When the waitress was taking their order and the first sounds of his guitar
riff (one of the most famous in popular music of course) was heard, White
started to say to the waitress that he was the one who played on that
record, but instead stopped himself. When Slutsky asked him about why he
didn't tell her, White forlornly said that it didn't really matter and she
would not have believed him anyway.
Now this film unmasks to the public the true originators of the Motown
sound. While lamenting that White never had a chance to see the film and
receive his proper due, Allan hoped that others can begin to give these
musical geniuses--the Funk Brothers--the true recognition they deserved for
the "art" they created.
Unable to be present due to health reasons were Jack Ashford, Bob Babbitt,
and Richard "Pistol" Allen, so we were fortunate to have been able to
applaud the ones who were able to attend the premiere and to address the
audience and answer some questions.
As soon as the five musicians appeared on stage, the crowd erupted with
another lengthy standing ovation. The first one came after the 1 hour and
53 minute film concluded. (Fastest 2 hours I have spent in a long time!)
The audience loved the film and loved the men who made the music. The first
set of questions were each preceded by an expression of thanks and gratitude
to the men for their contributions to music and to American society
(especially how their music "crossed over" and attracted white listeners to
rhythm and blues).
Some of the things that were brought out:
So much of what they recorded was created by them in the studio. So often
producers and writers would come to them with snippets of ideas and they
would turn them into hits. One example was Heatwave. I think it was Eddie
Willis who said he looked and looked at the snippet of music from the
Holland brothers, thought it had a bit of a Charleston beat intertwined in
it, started playing it that way and that was how that intro to Heatwave was
born.
The musicians said that except for the first few years, most of them never
saw the artists at Motown. Only if they went on the road with them did they
have much contact. All they did was come in and lay down tracks. They
didn't really pay attention to much of the music, since most of the time
they just listened to jazz stations and the Motown music was not something
they really enjoyed doing as much as their jazz work. Once in awhile they
would hear their songs on the radio and recognize who was playing what on
the record!
Jazz was their first and major love and as everyone knows, they spent a lot
of time playing in the nightclubs of Detroit. With their knowledge of jazz
they improvised and created much of the Motown sound without getting any
credit at all. It seemed that they understood that was how the game was
played and didn't seem to harbor any bitterness. As Allan Slutsky
explained, it was much like a director expecting actors to do more than just
act according to a script. If the actors improvise and create "art" as the
Motown musicians created "art" it is so often just the director who gets the
credit for producing a great film or record. It seemed that the guys were
glad to have the recognition and appreciative of the tribute that Allan
Slutsky and the film's director and producers had prepared for them. It was
clear that they indeed appreciated (and a bit suprised) by the adulation
shown them by the audience.
Of course someone brought up the issue of bassist Carol Kaye's contribution
to Motown records. Allan was as diplomatic as he could be and said
(paraphrasing here) that Carol Kaye's contributions to popular music is
undisputed, however, it was the case that songs such as Baby Love and others
on which she may have played were probably the soundtrack for TCB or other
special post-hit Motown productions, and while she may have thought she had
played on the original, she did not.
What brought home part of the indignity that these geniuses must have
suffered was that when Motown left Detroit, they basically closed their
doors one day without telling the Detroit employees, including Martha Reeves
and the Funk Brothers. It sounded like their literally locked the doors
without any notice whatsoever. I am not sure whether this is literally
true, but they made it sound like that was the way it was.
The film was lovingly created and that is easy to tell from the care with
which it was produced and edited. No one mentioned it, but I hope it
qualifies for an Academy Award nomination this year.
For more information about James Jamerson and the film, see
http://www.bassland.net/jamerson.html
By the way, I have about 10 extra copies of the program. If you would like
a copy (first-come, first served), I will send one out to you, just send me
your address directly to my email address at gene1@ix.netcom.com
Gene Alpert
===========================================
Fourteen years in the making, this film is based on a book of the same title
(by Mr. Slutsky) that won the 1989 Rolling Stone/BMI Ralph J. Gleason Music
Book Award. "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" was shot entirely on
location in Detroit from December 2000 through January 2001. This one hour,
56-minute documentary tells the Funk Brothers' saga through archival footage
and still photos, narration, interviews, re-creation scenes, 20 Motown
master tracks, and 12 new live performances of Motown classics with the Funk
Brothers backing up Chaka Kahn, Ben Harper, Bootsy Collins, Montell Jordan,
Me'Shell Ndegeocello, Joan Osborne and Gerald Levert.
=============================================
reviewed by: Lloyd A. Pinchback
Library of Congress Music Division
On Friday December 14, the Library of Congress premiered Allan Slutsky's
documentary film appropriately titled Standing in the Shadows of MOTOWN.
Fourteen years in the making, the film title was taken from Slutsky's award
winning book which centered on the music career of world renown Motown
bassist, James Jamerson.
Although I personally have not read the book, I can say that the film
version was a masterpiece. Then again, I may be prejudice owing to the fact
that I've listened to, analyzed, digested, and marveled over the Motown
mystique and the musicians and artists of Motown for more than thirty-five
years. For many years I've wondered who these people (i.e the musicians)
were. They are known now as THE FUNK BROTHERS. The film focuses on the
rise and the unfortunate fall of this collective.
The film is an emotional tour de force, and I don't think you have to be a
life-time fan to appreciate its literary content or its music interludes.
You will laugh, you will cry, you may even want to shout because the
vitality of the live concert performances would make a monkey pat its foot.
The concert featured The Funk Brothers rhythm section (Richard "Pistol"
Allen, Jack Ashford, Bob Babbitt, Johnny Griffith, Joe Hunter, Uriel Jones,
Joe Messina, and Eddie Willis), and guest vocalists including Bootsy
Collins, Ben Harper, Montell Jordan, Chaka Kahn, Gerald Levert, Meshell
Ndegeocello, and Joan Osborne. Saxophonist Tom Scott handled the sax solo
requirements. The concert alone is baad and beautiful!
The film is a must-see for all MOTOWN fans young and old. I am personally
glad that this documatary was finally done, and a masterful job it is. And
upon its release and distribution, will surely become a part of my personal
archive.
Thank God for THE FUNK BROTHERS previously named, but not to forget those
Brothers no longer living: drummer Benny Benjamin, percusionist Eddie
"Bongo" Brown, keyboardist Earl Van Dyke, James Jamerson (we all know what
he plays), and guitarist Robert White. Last but not least, many thanks to
Mr. Slutsky for conceptualizing for us in a real way the essence of the
Motown sound - the music and the musicians who performed it.
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.7.35.84 - 62.7.35.84) on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 08:35 am: |
great feedback/information.
thanks john.
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 03:29 pm: |
First of all,let me say what an interesting post this is.I am most anxious to see this film. If there was ever a group of musicians that deserved being immortalized, surly the Funk Brothers are it.
Motown didn't exactly close it's doors over night and head to L.A. We who were in Detroit knew it was coming, but we were never certain when the end would finally come.I had been lookin forward to working with Martha Reeves. Harry Balk had asked me if I was interested in producing her. Naturally I jumped at the chance. I was always a big fan of Martha. She and I had only one meeting and from there things began to fall apart in the company.
Why Motown really left Detroit I will never know.I suppose the same could be said for Barry eventually selling the company to MCA. Before it all finally closed down I was told I was being considered to run a shoe string operation in Detroit. They would leave me Studio A and a staff of sorts. However, this never happened. I don't know why for sure. No explanation was ever given to me.
Durng the final days in Detroit the majority of the staff complained that we were being treated as the company's step children.L.A. was getting everything and Detroit was just plain losing.
Please don't misunderstand me. There was some real talent working out of L.A. Hal Davis and James Carmichael were there. Frank Wilson had re-located.But in my opinion, it just wasn't the same. To me the Motown Sound was the Funk Brothers doing sessions in good old funky Studio A.
That is really what the Sound was all about. The L.A. studios were georgious, but to me they didn't represent what Motown truly was.The Motown sound was from the street. It was created by guys who were from the street who took this really great music and hammered it into gold. That was the gift of the Funk Brothers.
| By John Lester (213.1.131.240 - 213.1.131.240) on Friday, December 21, 2001 - 10:14 pm: |
Ralph
It's no secret that the demand for the pre-Detroit period far outweighs the demand for the post-Detroit period. I think that says it all
| By acooolcat (211.72.121.66 - 211.72.121.66) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 06:48 am: |
I think most music made by the mid-70s had lost it's indigenous sound - whether it was made in Chicago, Detroit or New York - it tended to sound the same. I blame disco.
Graham
| By John Lester (213.1.163.239 - 213.1.163.239) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 12:55 pm: |
I think I know what you mean but I have to say that there WAS a lot of good music that came out in the 70s (and I am told in the 80's and 90's too!!) but there was a rawness and an imagination going on which extended way past simply writing a good tune with a good melody and fine lyrics.
I sometimes wonder if it was because my teenage years were in the 60's that I feel that way. Maybe someone older might reckon the 70's were the best. I certainly would not agree that current rap music is inventive to the same extent as the music from my era but I would respect anyone that had an opposing view.
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 06:35 pm: |
john
i bought another one of those motown reissues yesterday - marvin with kim weston and mary wells.
the photographs which are coming out on these cd's are absolutely stunning.
well done to all concerned.
| By John Lester (213.1.164.28 - 213.1.164.28) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 11:02 pm: |
Now you gotta give Harry his props...
There are a few things that still need sorting out but we are getting there, slowly but surely.
David.......you better buy Complete Duets on Marvin and Tammi otherwise I shall be up to Glasgow to sort you out!
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Saturday, December 22, 2001 - 11:13 pm: |
john
you prompted me to get up off my wobbly seat and check out a marvin & tammi cd i bought recently.
oops it's only the greatest hits cd. but i love tammi terrell.
tell me about this cd, i honestly don't think i've seen it.
| By John Lester aka as THAT MOTOWN GUY WHO GOES ON AND ON (213.122.204.135 - 213.122.204.135) on Sunday, December 23, 2001 - 08:45 am: |
Apologies to those who have heard this before BUT..
The Complete Duets by Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell consists of 2CD's containing all the songs issued under the banner of Marvin Gaye and Tammi Terrell. That means also the "when Valerie Simpson was Tammi Terrell" recordings too..such as Good Lovin' Ain't Easy To Come By, The Onion Song, I'm Your Puppet, What You Gave Me etc.
The first of the two CD's consists of the two albums "United" and "You're All I Need" with alternate versions of 2 hit 45's plus a recently discovered duet never ever issued before and one which was discovered by Harry Weinger - if I recall - almost by accident. It's their duet version of the song we now know and love by the Temptations "We'll Be Satisfied" and it is wonderful...and that is an understatement.
The second CD has the "Easy" album (where you find the Valerie sung songs) plus Tammi Terrell's Motown SOLO 45's in their ORIGINAL 45 format PLUS...and this is where you guys should be there with your mouths' wide open...NINE - yes 9 previously "unissued in the USA" Tammi solo performances...and these are....fanfare please... Aint No Mountain High Enough (YES - HER SOLO VERSION), Two Can Have A Party (us Brits were priviledged to have this on the Northern Soul Tamla Motown collection a while back but you US guys have now caught up with us), You Ain't Livin' 'Til Your Lovin', Give in You Just Can't Win. I ought to give you a little breather before I go on....... and YES there is MORE so pick yourself up off the floor cos these next ones are gonna knock you stone cold.......When Love Comes Knocking At My Heart, Memory Chest, That's How It Is (Since You've Been Gone), More More More and Oh How I Miss You. Well, I warned you.......sit down calmly and take 10 slow breaths, I aint finished yet!
Now think of the word "Bookends"...and play the first track on side 1 of CD1 and as soon as Ain't No Mountain High Enough starts to play, push the rewind button and go back about one minute to get take 14 of the band track of that song and hear Benny Benjamin's rasping voice as a session is abandoned. At the other bookend....go to the end of "More More More" on side two and hear the final lines from an alternative take of "Aint Nothing LIke The Real Thing" where an exhausted Tammi screams.."Do We Have To Do It Again".
I can't praise this double "worth its weight in gold" CD enough.
Now for a link.......on the track "Oh How I Miss You", a male voice appears which isn't Marvin Gaye. The song was written by Frank Wilson (amongst others) and Frank was asked whether it was him....Frank said "NO but it might be the OTHER Frank Wilson". So now check out my post on the forum When is Frank Wilson NOT Frank Wilson for your input.
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Sunday, December 23, 2001 - 12:49 pm: |
oh well that's another one for the shopping list.
thanks john.
hey tell us more about you bumping into scott regan!
| By John Lester (213.1.129.1 - 213.1.129.1) on Sunday, December 23, 2001 - 01:32 pm: |
David, I can if you want me to talk about Scott but shall I do a new heading?
Scott was an amazing meeting...he really was? I guess you have read Manifesto to know that...ain't you fed up with me yet?
Scott introduced the live set which was issued as the Temptations live! and that is why I just happened to be around when Scott visited the Polygram building. I was in awe of this guy who talked about things that we all dream about...like they were just everyday occurences.
| By John Lester (213.1.129.1 - 213.1.129.1) on Sunday, December 23, 2001 - 01:37 pm: |
Ralph
A showing of the film featuring the Funk Brothers will betaking place in Detroit. I think it would be a nice idea if you could try and make it, if you can. I dont have any dates at the moment but I know you will get to know about it sooner rather than later.
Maybe a group of us can get to go too, to meet up and even MEET YOU! Maybe T2 too!
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, December 23, 2001 - 03:30 pm: |
John,
If at all possible I'd like to be in Detroit to see the movie. It would be great to meet you John. David and I already have plans for April 2003.
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.4 - 62.252.128.4) on Monday, December 24, 2001 - 01:18 pm: |
john i'm sure we'd all like to hear more about scott regan.
a new thread would be ideal.
| By Erik (64.228.108.160 - 64.228.108.160) on Friday, January 11, 2002 - 10:33 am: |
Anyone know when this is showing in Detroit & will it somehow make an appearance here in Toronto? Thanks for any info at all...
| By John Lester (213.1.129.202 - 213.1.129.202) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 03:25 pm: |
Check out this promotional film...
If this is what's in store....I am gonna book up NOW....
http://www.elliottscottproductions.com/
Download the promo film.......
Thanks for letting me know HW!
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 10:16 pm: |
john
should there be a download. can't see one.
| By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 10:43 pm: |
David
I just watched the promo through - seven minutes of bliss, but sadly you can't save it. The music is superb!!!!
| By John Lester (213.122.190.26 - 213.122.190.26) on Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 11:57 pm: |
David.....I can't work things out like how can you download..that's all double dutch to me...I just got on the site and kept clicking until something happened!
| By david, glasgow, scotland (213.122.134.127 - 213.122.134.127) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 08:30 am: |
john i can't get past the pages after the two arrows at the left of the opening screen.
where are the links which will allow me to open the file (rather than download)?
| By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 08:35 am: |
David
The link to the page with the video preview is bottom left of the index page (the first page you arrive at). Depending on your screen resolution, it might actually be off the screen, in which case, you wouldn't be able to see it.
But, this is the link to the preview page:
http://www.elliottscottproductions.com/standing_in_the_shadows.htm
This will take you straight to the relevant page. Hope this helps
| By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 03:01 pm: |
To download (but it is a massive file),right mouse click on the link and click 'save target as'. This will promt you for a place to put it! You really need a LAN or broadband and it still took about 10 minutes! But, wow, was it worth it??? I was nearly in tears...again! What a wonderful piece of footage/trailer.
| By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.5 - 62.254.0.5) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 03:45 pm: |
Carl - thanks for the tip... I never thought of right-clicking on the link! I've now downloaded the whole masterpiece - it took me about five minutes (via cable modem), and I'll transfer it onto a CD for posterity. If any of you guys want a copy, just give me a shout.
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 06:03 pm: |
thanks for the help lads.
i think this film has a lot of potential!
great to see the apex bar on oakland in the opening shot. james played there during his career.
across the road is the mighty fine 'sugar hill lounge' which used to be a haunt of erma franklin, jackie wilson, david ruffin and many others.
| By stueyboy (213.105.232.142 - 213.105.232.142) on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 01:45 pm: |
I have been aware of the talents of the 'Funk brohers' for quite some time. and was extremely pleased when i heard that someone was producing a film documentary on them.
However when i heard that they were re-recording some of the old classics i was sceptical as i am purist and believe that re-unions of 60s bands do not work out well.
I have now seen the 'standing in the shadows of motown' trailer, and it has taken away any doubts i might have had, in particular the 'cloud nine' guitar intro is absolutley superb.
I have always thought of the funk brothers as the world's best kept secret, But know i know that their talent is still there 30 years later i am extremely impressed.
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 02:25 pm: |
welcome to the forum stueyboy.
yes the film clip is quite an eye opener.
babbit will keep us advised of film preview date.
| By Paul (216.210.192.146 - 216.210.192.146) on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 08:46 pm: |
Hi, this is Paul Elliott, of "Elliott Scott Productions", executive producers of the film "Standing in the Shadows of Motown". It is great to read all the wonderful comments about the film and the Funk Brothers.
I apologise for any difficulties anyone has had in viewing the trailer, but please be patient! We are about to launch a website upgrade, with more info, and a better look. On the site, you can also sign up for a mailing list that is used to distribute news about the film -- including screening dates (unfortunately, none are scheduled right now). Here is the URL:
http://www.StandingInTheShadowsOfMotown.com
Regards,
Paul Elliott
Elliott Scott Productions
| By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Friday, March 01, 2002 - 09:03 pm: |
Mr Elliott
If you've read any of the posts here, I guess you'll have gathered we're all pretty excited about the film. I for one was bowled over by the authentic sound of the music tracks. I'd just like to say thanks and congratulations.
If the trailer's anything to go by, you've got a winner on your hands!
| By Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (68.80.164.254 - 68.80.164.254) on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 11:03 am: |
I have also seen the trailer, the music sounds better now then it did back in the day, I can't
wait to see it, you did a good job Allen.
Weldon
| By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Saturday, March 02, 2002 - 03:30 pm: |
Paul Elliot
This film is long overdue. I know most of us praise it already, even though we have only seen the trailer. I know it will move me, like the trailer did. I cannot wait to see it here in the UK. If I cannot, I will come to the States, no matter what! Any product as a result of this movie I will purchase. I want the world to know how it was all done. I am sure it will open eyes wider and enhance today�s music. If the guys go on tour - I will be there, not once, or even twice, but forever. I think we should have a forum block booking in the theatre and a supply of tissues to mop up the tears. Infact that could be a merchandising accessory - packets of tissues for when we break down!!
| By Ian W (213.122.73.220 - 213.122.73.220) on Sunday, March 03, 2002 - 09:27 pm: |
Well said, Carl!
I guess we'd even go just to watch the trailer on the big screen!
| By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 08:57 am: |
Ian W
Too true! - my friends at work have no idea about Motown or soul music, but this last few weeks they are learning fast the difference between pop drivel and, in my opinion, the classical music of the era, which we discuss here and openly at my place of work. They know a little about The Formations, Ric Tic and The Philly Sound. I have been playing 'At the top of the stairs' every week for about 2 years now off the internet - even the 21 year old can sing it AND he likes it!! In fact, he keeps asking me to play some of the old stuff that sounds like 'Motown', because he grew up with it because of his parents and likes it.
Time and time again, writers and producers are going back to the sixties and seventies for a yardstick for their next production. I just wish some of the stuff lived up to that yardstick. I think the 'Shadows' movie will clarify an awful lot. I would do anything to have been there, except play the bag pipes of course!
| By Angus (152.163.197.182 - 152.163.197.182) on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 01:30 pm: |
WHAT'S WRONG WITH BAG PIPES MATE?
| By Jeff (151.203.6.162 - 151.203.6.162) on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 03:22 pm: |
I too attended the showing of Standing in the Shadows December 14, 2001 at the Library of Congress, Washington D.C. When the lights in the theater were dimmed, the screen came alive and suddenly, we were all thrust back into time. The sounds and sights that were cascading through the theater suddenly stopped time as I knew it and for the next two hours, the sixties are alive again.
That day, I flew to D.C. from Boston and walked into the theater five minutes before the start of the show. I was fortunate after scanning the audience while the house lights were still up, to see a freind I have never met in person but recognized by his photo. He invited me to come down to the sixth row and sit with him. My freind Anthony McKnight incidentally, is the cousin of the late James Jamerson. It took me a very short time to notice that the people sitting in the row directly in front of us were The Funk Brothers.
Throughout the viewing of the film, they seemed genuinely enthused by it and I wondered if the movie brought them back in time as it did I.
The picture, to me, told a story of the human side of the invisible people who made the un-mistakable Sound of Young America.
It was wonderful seeing these artists playing together and having fun at The Royal Oak Theater thru many scenes of the movie. Believe me, "they still got it"
When the film concluded, The Funk Brothers, along with Alan Slutsky "Dr Licks" and movie director Paul Justman took the stage for a question and answer period. Many folks stood and asked questions of the Funk Brothers etal and I knew someone, if not myself, would ask the very contraversial question," if Carol Kaye played on various Motown she is laying claim to". There was not a response from any of The Funk Brothers because they were all laughing. Dr Licks, however, said a few words on the matter but the Funk Brothers answered it all without words.
Several photos of the evening and a copy of the events program can be seen @ bassland.net. This site is quite informative and entertaining, and as well, has its own discussion page.
Good Day to All
JEFF
| By Angus (152.163.197.182 - 152.163.197.182) on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 04:09 pm: |
I neglected to mention, mainly because it has nothing to do musically with this forum,but I was a member of The Royal Guardsmen in the sixties, and my father was in a brigade, as well as his father and my son is as well although he is into sixties soul and that is how we found this site via another one called Soulwalking.
So bagpipes have played a major part in my life and should not be mentioned in jest.
Cheers,
Angus Macdowell
Angus Macdowell
| By Ralph Terrana (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 04:33 pm: |
Angus,
I'm sure no disrespect was intended regarding the bagpipes.�In reality I know how difficult the instrument is to play and those that can play them have my deepest respect
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 05:59 pm: |
one of the most moving moments on tv in recent years was the pipes leading the first funeral service for a victim of the september 11th disaster.
in war and peace it is a deeply emotional musical instrument.
thanks for reminding us angus.
| By soulbrother (213.105.237.66 - 213.105.237.66) on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 07:41 pm: |
Does anyone know if ALL the FUNK BROTHERS present in movie are aware of this site and the interest shown in them prior to the release of film.
I'm sure it would make them quite happy that they still have people out there who support them with or without the movie.
spread the word!
| By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Monday, March 04, 2002 - 08:40 pm: |
Angus -
Please accept my apologies about the bagpipes! It was in jest and aimed at another comment mentioned about them in another thread on this forum. Also the reason I mentioned them is because I am not the best musician and can hardly play a thing, apart from 'Cluedo', the murder game. I twiddle on the piano and the guitar, but would never think of picking up a set of pipes, because I am sure they are very specialist indeed and I would probably fail miserably at those as well! However, I meant to say 'lead pipes' as in the game mentioned earlier. So, I stand accused, Carl Dixon, with the lead piping in the studio!
Hopefully Angus I have redeemed myself?
Cheers
| By Poly Esther (205.188.199.174 - 205.188.199.174) on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 08:29 pm: |
Dear Angus,
I am a great fan of the bagpipes! I do not say that in gest. Jackie Wilson had a song that my mom and dad played back in the the 60's and it featured bagpipes. Can anyone tell me the name of that song?
Poly Esther
| By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 09:01 pm: |
Speaking of bagpipes...
Remember Rufus Harley?
| By ErikT.O. (64.228.108.22 - 64.228.108.22) on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 09:06 pm: |
Not offhand (I don't remember that much!) but the bag pipes sub-topic got me thinking of Parliament's 'Waiting For The Silent Boatman' (Ruth Cowpland authored?- It's on her 'Deepbeats' label cd)... /Erik
| By Ritchie Hardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 09:21 pm: |
OK....
| By Ian W (213.122.180.30 - 213.122.180.30) on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 11:09 pm: |
Poly
Was Jackie Wilson's bagpipe song 'Nothing But Blue Skirls'? Or even 'Skyes'?
Ritchie, I think you bought that album all those years back just in case internet chat forums were ever invented!
Ian
| By Ian W (213.122.180.30 - 213.122.180.30) on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 11:17 pm: |
'I Get The Sweetest Reeling'?
| By RitchieHardin (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, March 05, 2002 - 11:30 pm: |
Ian
Thanks for listing all those forgotten Jackie McWilson classics - issued on Highland, no doubt.
About the Rufus Harley album - aye, ye've foond me oot!
| By david, glasgow, scotland - and proud of it (213.122.128.25 - 213.122.128.25) on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 08:50 am: |
if you feel the need to continue bating angus, and even his race, i suggest you visit the undernoted site where racism isn't tolerated ;)
http://www.ritchie-hardin.com/soul/index.html
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 10:01 am: |
OK, David -
No offence intended!
I know you weren't really accusing me of "racism" as that's the last thing I'd care to be accused of. I may be a Northern Sassenach by birth, but I do pride myself in my Scottish ancestry. (The McLeans and the Adamsons - whose roots in Kilmarnock my family have traced back to the 18th Century.)
I'd like to go on further, but I have to put on my ganzie and take my whippet out for a walk, then pick up some tripe and cow heels for supper.
| By Angus (205.188.198.156 - 205.188.198.156) on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:02 pm: |
I've been reading the recent bagpipe references and I am not angry. In fact, due to my ignorance, I was not aware of that fine American,( I presume) artist called Rufus Harley.
Do you know if he has ever been to Scotland?
If not, he must come and we should meet.
Historically speaking, there was a sect in the north of Italy who had blond to ginger hair and played bagpipes!
| By phillysoulman (205.188.198.156 - 205.188.198.156) on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 01:14 pm: |
The very early recording by The Bluenotes called
"My Hero" on the Val-ue label, circa 1960 believe or not had Rufus Harley on it playing bagpipes.
Val-ue was a label owned by one Eddie Valdez who owned the Paramount record shop on South street between 15th and 16th, and bandleader Doc Bagby, the original conductor of the Uptown theatre orchestra. Other acts on this label were The Mohawks featuring a young Phil Hurtt doing "Bewitched, bothered and bewildered', and Louis Watts and the Rocketeers, who had a version of "My Foolish Heart" Watts no arms, as they were lost during wartime. They used to rehearse in my house when I first started out.I believe that Harley also had some 45's on Val-ue early on. That label is very rare indeed!!
| By Allan Dr. Licks Slutsky (152.163.207.79 - 152.163.207.79) on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 04:39 pm: |
Susan Whitall of the Detroit News just turned me on to this site. All I can say is "Wow." The level of passion and musical knowldege contained in these posts is very inspiring. From a personal point of view, the Funk Brothers and the production staff of STANDING IN THE SHADOWS OF MOTOWN truly appreciate all your comments about our film. After fifteen years pursuing this long overdue dream, it's nice to get some feedback.
I've received a lot of emails requesting information about the film's status and content so here's some answers to the most frequently asked questions:
1)The film will be distributed theatrically (in "art-house" theaters) sometime late this summer or early fall. There will aslo be a CD soundtrack, a home video, a DVD with additional material not contained in the film, and at some point, a "coffee table" type book on the making of the film. This will contain hundreds of historical and production photos as well as text telling the saga of the fifteen years it took the film to come to fruition. (And beleive me, that's quite a story unto itself.)
2)There are 12 tunes performed in the film (with the Funk Brothers and our guest artists) as well as approximately 25 "needledrops" of Motown masters used as underscore. You can find the list of them as well as a list of all the Detroit venues at which we filmed by going to:
http://elliottscottproductions.com/
3)A lot of you want to know if Berry Gordy was any help. Well.....we were given carte blanche to license thirty-five or so tunes from the Motown/Jobete catalogue. That might not sound like much but it is monumental. No one outside of the company has ever been given access to that many tunes at one time. Motown compositions are the most closely guarded properties in the publishing industry. So the answer is "Yes," Berry did right by the guys when we came to him for the songs.
4)There is a ton of material we couldn't fit in the one hour and fifty-three minute film we edited. There were numerous agonizing decisions we had to make because there were so many important facts to bring out and so much great material, but we just couldn't fit it all.
5)We will be doing some film festivals and (depending on the success of the film), hope to get the guys out on the road for a susbstantial tour. They wanna play!!!
6)Everything we are doing in terms of distribtion will be on a worldwide basis so all our good Northern Soul friends in the UK as well as Motown fans all over the world will be able to see the film and obtain all the spin-off products.
All the best to everyone and spread the word. This is obviously an underground, "grass roots" type of project. You can play a huge role in helping the Funk Brothers to finally get their dream of recognition just by runnin' your mouths, making posts, and emailing people.
Lastly, to Rudy Robinson:
We love you and we'll miss you every time we play. Say "hi" to James, Earl, Robert, Benny, and Eddie Bongo for us. (And tell Bongo to stop playing the dozens on Jamerson's Mama.)
Allan "Dr. Licks" Slutsky
| By phillysoulman (205.188.192.161 - 205.188.192.161) on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 05:46 pm: |
Hi Allan,
Bobby Eli here. Just want to say hi. I have heard nothing but rave reviews from all of my cohorts who were involvd or who have seen it.
Congratulations!! Thank the academy NOW!!
| By david, glasgow, scotland (213.107.27.25 - 213.107.27.25) on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 06:21 pm: |
welcome to the forum allan.
your film looks a sure-fire winner.
well done from everybody at soulfuldetroit!!
| By Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (68.80.164.254 - 68.80.164.254) on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 06:49 pm: |
Hi Allen, you said years ago that you were going to do a movie about the Funk Brothers,What a movie
the trailer is out of sight,good good job.
your friend
WELDON
| By Carl Dixon London (62.31.40.173 - 62.31.40.173) on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 08:40 pm: |
Allan Slutsky
This is great you have dropped in to say hello and update us with all the news.
Do you remember I wrote to you around 1990, from the UK, about my newly purchased 'Standing in the Shadow's' bass book???? Well, if you remember I had step recorded some of Jamersons bass licks into my Yamaha V50 8 track, 32 note polyphonic sequencer (the one I still use today) and heard magic play with the 'sound alike' fender patch. I was in tears when I wrote to you!! If you saw smudged ink on that hand written letter that is what is was. I could not believe that you had painstakingly done all this work. You kindly replied and that reply, in its envelope was shown to Mr Berry Gordy, here at the TV studios where I work. They did a book show programme in those days and he came in to see us!!! He reminded me he had wrote the intro for the book. I am so glad this is working out. In all my life I have never known such passion as here, on this forum for all things soulful and Detroit. I know the movie will be a great success and I know we cannot wait to see it.
| By givethedrummersome (161.114.88.75 - 161.114.88.75) on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 09:25 pm: |
Alan
I was planning to send this to Nona so that she could forward to you, however looks like you found it. Glad to see your work get the attention that it deserves. Can't wait until you get it released to the world. Congratulations!
Drop me a line when you get a chance.
Your 'Majestic' Bother
Lonnie
| By John Lester..London (213.122.203.5 - 213.122.203.5) on Wednesday, March 06, 2002 - 09:59 pm: |
Dr Licks....welcome to the site....
We met when James was inducted into the Hall Of Fame.....I was priviledged to be in the company of yourself, Annie and Harry Weinger. One of those occasions which I will treasure forever.
You must know you have the whole Forum's support..and let's hope that us people in the UK get the opportunity to see the film.
| By Allan (152.163.205.76 - 152.163.205.76) on Thursday, March 07, 2002 - 01:52 pm: |
Yeah John
The night of Jamerson's Hall of Fame induction was very special. When they hit the bass intro to "My Girl" and the crowd instantly erupted in cheers, I got goose bumps. James would never have believed it. He thought he'd be forgotten forever.
And you can book it. The Funk Brothers film while absolutely be shown in the UK.
Allan
| By soulboy (213.105.228.232 - 213.105.228.232) on Friday, March 08, 2002 - 11:26 pm: |
Dr licks (ALLAN)
I would just like to say you are a hero of mine.
Who would thought even after writing the book on jamerson,you would have had the determination and persistance to get this film made. The Funk brothers are the most talented group of musicians ever to walk the face of the earth, but they are also one of most unrecognised.
This film (from what i've seen) will go some way to putting this right. the idea for them to tour is great, but on the strength of their talent I wouldn't be suprised (even today)if there are record producers are out there waiting to use them on new records!
| By Allan (64.12.105.46 - 64.12.105.46) on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 02:29 pm: |
Yo Soulboy,
Thank you for the kind words and thanks also to the other people in this forum who have had encouraging things to say about our film. We're hoping that this movie will changed the Funk Brothers' "unrecognized" situation to which you referred in your post of March 8th. Stay tuned. It's going to be an interesting year.
Allan (Dr.Licks) Slutsky
| By Sue Donim (205.188.198.187 - 205.188.198.187) on Wednesday, March 13, 2002 - 09:40 pm: |
Allan,
I did put my hands on a copy of your book Standing in the Shadows.... and I found it mesmerizing indeed, just reading about all of the unsung heros who lived right in my own back yard unbeknownst to me at the time. I cannot wait to see the film.
Sue
| By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 06:16 pm: |
Time to play the trailer again for my buddies at work. Everytime I play it, it makes the room come alive. The interest in this production from all ages in here,is very high. The 21 year old wants to see it and cannot wait. Dr. L - let us know by electronis scrotum the minute details are released so we can get cookin' with gassssssss! And Bob Babbit - we see you, we see you! My friends here know who you are man! They are impppressed!!
| By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 06:25 pm: |
Bobby - apols for nicking the electronic scrotum idea - you know what it's like! I am a northerner!
| By Eli (205.188.192.182 - 205.188.192.182) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 08:30 pm: |
Carl,
I was just on the phone with me 'ol solicitor to arrange the percentage of the royalty payment!!!!
I almost did not have the "scrotum" to do it!!
| By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 08:33 pm: |
Does an English electronic scrotum drive on the left??
| By Eli (205.188.192.182 - 205.188.192.182) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 08:41 pm: |
Actually it is a device made in an undecending testicular fashion, therefore it would be in the center!! I hope that this query did not leave you strapped!!
| By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 08:48 pm: |
In that case,I think I once knew a guy with a transverse mounted electronic scrotum. He always insisted on Duracell batteries and a mirror,for some reason. He often used a walking stick or cane and wore a carnation. Strange character!
We have just played the film trailer 5 times at work - can you wear a computer out?
| By Ian W (62.6.71.108 - 62.6.71.108) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 10:58 pm: |
Don't let Ritchie read the last few messages. He was getting 'All Turned On' by my sheep.
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 11:05 pm: |
Too late, alas.
I'll just have to go off and have a cold shower. Hmmm... how much treacle have I got?
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 11:07 pm: |
Just a minute...
What has all this got to do with the Funk Brothers? Talk about losing the plot!
| By Shep (152.163.197.189 - 152.163.197.189) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 11:10 pm: |
I've suddenly got a taste for some haggis!!!!
| By BOB BABBITT (152.163.207.196 - 152.163.207.196) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 11:36 pm: |
NEWS FLASH.......POSSIBILITY OF DEAL FOR MOVIE HAPPENING THIS WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BOB BABBITT
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Tuesday, March 19, 2002 - 11:37 pm: |
Bob
DO keep us posted!!!
| By paul (209.204.150.224 - 209.204.150.224) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 03:04 am: |
Regarding the movie deal, all I can say is "no comment" (wink).
Let me remind you about the website: http://www.StandingInTheShadowsOfMotown.com
You can be sure that any official news will be posted there immediately. There, you can also sign up for the email newsletter, which carries any late-breaking news about the film.
Regards,
Paul Elliott
Elliott Scott Productions
Executive Producers of the motion picture Standing in the Shadows of Motown
| By John Lester (213.1.132.149 - 213.1.132.149) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 08:12 am: |
all I hope is that the deal mentions the words "AND to be shown in the UK"
Paul..can you give us your assurance you are looking after us over here please!!
| By jack (216.78.130.35 - 216.78.130.35) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 03:57 pm: |
Wow I just love this .Thanks to all that care. Jack Ashford
| By Steve Robinson (207.74.133.103 - 207.74.133.103) on Wednesday, March 20, 2002 - 05:24 pm: |
I was SO excited to see that a film on Jamerson has been completed. STANDING IN THE SHADOWS is one of the best music books I have ever seen.
Will the film be shown in Detroit? Can someone post to the list with a scheduled date when it is available?
Thank you!
| By soulboy (213.105.230.157 - 213.105.230.157) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 02:38 pm: |
Nice update to the "standingintheshadowsofmotown.com" website. It now includes a brief biography on each of the funk Brothers. Check it out now!!
Soulboy
| By John Lester (213.122.191.39 - 213.122.191.39) on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 08:44 pm: |
I actually think the site is really nice....
A credit to the guys who designed it....
All in nice big print too..,,,so that the older ones amongst dont need to get right close to the screen with our binoculars!!
LOL
| By Paul (209.204.150.137 - 209.204.150.137) on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 06:18 am: |
I've been promising some news, and here it finally is!
ARTISAN PICTURES ACQUIRES NORTH AMERICAN DISTRIBUTION RIGHTS TO FEATURE FILM DOCUMENTARY STANDING IN THE SHADOWS OF MOTOWN
For the full press release, go to http://www.StandingInTheShadowsOfMotown.com
and click on "News"
So, we've got the USA and Canada theatrical release planned for sometime in August (cities to be announced), and now we're working on getting distribution for the rest of the world, and on the soundtrack release. I will share the news as it happens.
Regards,
Paul Elliott
Elliott Scott Productions
| By Carl Dixon London (195.153.219.170 - 195.153.219.170) on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 06:25 am: |
Excellent news Paul. I will read the press release.
| By john lester (213.122.192.246 - 213.122.192.246) on Saturday, April 06, 2002 - 09:28 pm: |
Paul
We are depending on you to get this film to us people in the UK...
Please dont let us down
| By Allan Slutsky (152.163.207.53 - 152.163.207.53) on Thursday, April 11, 2002 - 12:53 pm: |
Hi Everyone,
As our executive producer Paul Elliott told you all a few posts back, we now have a major distributor (Artisan Pictures) who will be putting out "Standing In The Shadows Of Motown" in theaters across North America (and shortly thereafter in the UK and the rest of the world). Artisan was the company that also distributed "The Buena Vista Social Club" and interestingly enough, they also did "The Blair Witch Project."
"Blair Witch" was an internet phenomenon. They created a huge buzz working the net. Since our movie is a "grass roots" type of project, we'd like to do the same thing with the Funk Brothers' film. Any sites, discussion groups, or forums we should hit, or any other internet ideas any of you have would be greatly appreciated. We need to get the word out.
All the best,
Allan
| By Allan Slutsky (64.12.107.174 - 64.12.107.174) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 03:36 am: |
For anyone who will be in the vicinity of New York City on Saturday May 11th, STANDING IN THE SHADOWS OF MOTOWN will be shown at Robert DeNiro's Tribeca Film Festival. It should be quite an event.
Allan
| By john lester (213.1.135.121 - 213.1.135.121) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 07:55 am: |
Allan
What about the UK..I feel really left out here
| By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130 - 62.31.32.130) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 08:05 am: |
Best of luck with it Allan (not that you need it)!
Blimey, New York for the 'Standing' movie followed by Felix and the Rythm Revue at the night club afterwards - now there's an idea!
| By john lester (213.1.135.121 - 213.1.135.121) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 08:12 am: |
Can anyone give me a good reason why I should NOT get on a plane and come and see it.
I want to see this film really bad
| By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130 - 62.31.32.130) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 08:22 am: |
John, if I could go, I would. That w/end our family is celebrating an 80 year old birthday out in the sticks for three days - it is a surprise (maybe she reads this forum!!). With prices to New York as they are,I cannot think of a better w/end spent in the city. Had the circumstances been different, I may have been tempted. There is a great vinyl record shop just down from Time Square too. That is where I bought my Bobby Hebb album from a few years ago in the quest to find 'You wanna change me', as I did not know the title then. Only if....
| By Allan Slutsky (64.12.106.31 - 64.12.106.31) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 12:25 pm: |
Hey John and Carl
Thanks for the encouragement and don't worry John, this film will definitely hit the UK. In fact, our seven minute trailer will be shown at the Cannes film festival at the same time as we're in Tribeca (where the full one hour and fifty minute version will be shown). The purpose of the the trailer screening at Cannes is to create a buzz in the European market as a warm-up to eventual distribution there.
Allthe best,
Allan
| By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130 - 62.31.32.130) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 01:12 pm: |
Allan - when is the Cannes festival. I am sure our station sends somebody out there!! Let me know.
Cheers
Carl
| By harryweinger (12.110.192.128 - 12.110.192.128) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 07:41 pm: |
In the midst of all this I would like to add something personal: I watched a VHS rough cut copy of this film a few weeks ago, since I had consulted Allan Slutsky where I might have been some help, both as a friend and in my job as a Universal/Motown catalog producer. I watched it at the office with a friend who is Motown 'fan' but also an industry professional and between the two of us we felt we 'knew' the story - meaning, we could afford to be a bit detached, in the interest of watching it objectively.
Fat chance. Before the last sequence began to roll I was more than overcome with emotion. I turned to my friend, to see where he was at - tears were streaming down his face.
It's fun, funny, sad and lovely, a celebration both bittersweet and joyful. This film is a monumental achievement. Go see it however you can.
HW
| By Carl Dixon London (62.31.32.130 - 62.31.32.130) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 07:51 pm: |
Harry - I had a tear or two after I downloaded the 7min treailer off the internet! It certainly sounds magical and I look forward to its release in the UK. I have my tent and long johns at the ready incase I need to camp out for the night at the cinema to get a ticket.
| By john lester (213.122.203.171 - 213.122.203.171) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 09:23 pm: |
Allan
How much buzz do you want over here...
......my tongue is already halfway round the block..
LOL!
| By Ian W (213.122.56.13 - 213.122.56.13) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 09:44 pm: |
Even my wife says I can go and see the film when it arrives here! Screen it here first! Front row for me, not like Ritchie who likes to sit at the back!
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 09:51 pm: |
Ian
I think on this occasion, I'll make a notable exception. And I will definitely care what picture I see! (To refer to another of their songs.)
| By Ian W (213.122.56.13 - 213.122.56.13) on Monday, April 29, 2002 - 10:07 pm: |
We could share popcorn. Hey, you don't often see that on a Detroit soul website!
| By soulboy (213.105.235.57 - 213.105.235.57) on Tuesday, April 30, 2002 - 06:15 pm: |
I have to confess, i keep going back to watch the trailer every so often,just to check if i missed some detail out. and this is without the broadband connection (at the moment).
Is this the start of an obsession?? what will happen when i finally get to see the whole film?
| By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 12:43 am: |
Harry, I had the exact same response BOTH times I saw it.
| By BassLand (64.165.226.153 - 64.165.226.153) on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 01:37 pm: |
I thought about not responding to this but, In all honesty, I have to admit that seeing this film also produced a tear or two in my eyes.
BL
| By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 05:17 pm: |
There's a step beyond being "awesome" that has to do with inciting pure joy in the listener. We've lost that joy in most of today's popular music and this film really brings home exactly what we have lost.
| By john lester (213.1.137.146 - 213.1.137.146) on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 08:14 pm: |
Bassland......
Me too - It's hard not to.
| By Ian W (213.122.107.26 - 213.122.107.26) on Thursday, May 02, 2002 - 09:42 pm: |
I'll be taking my missus and the kids to see the film when it's shown over here - to show them what real music is like. It's not everyday they'll see a grown man weep. Well, partially grown anyway!
| By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 02:14 pm: |
I have just downloaded the trailer with the aid of my newly installed broadband. i must say that the music impressed more now than ever. Like other people on this forum, when i eventually see it all,i fear it will bring tears to my eyes. and i don't normally consider myself the emotional type.
| By BassLand (64.165.226.111 - 64.165.226.111) on Sunday, May 05, 2002 - 03:15 pm: |
I guess it's time to "fess up", so to speak. Not only did I go thru the time period when the visual identities of these great musicians were kept secret on purpose, but I had the added indignity of someone attemting to (for what ever reason) "take" (I was very tempted to use a stronger word here but decided that I should not) the credits of my personal idol as a then (when the music was made) 13 year old bassplayer. This individual recently tried to sue me when I stood up and defended this Motown bassplayer's legacy. The suit of course went away because it was groundless but to see what and whom I was defending on that big screen was very emotional to me on several levels. Aside from the fact that this tribute is happening 40 years after the fact, this film validated my efforts to defend this persons legacy and lets me know that I did the right thing. I am so glad that Soulful Detroit is here giving me access to so many who are involved with Motown.
BL
| By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 04:25 pm: |
I don't think there was really an intentional desire to keep the funk brothers' identities a secret. Before about 1970 it was unheard of for ANY session musicians to get credited and Motown was no different than virtually every other label. This was artist-driven because most artists didn't want the public knowing that the musicians on their records were "ringers" and different from who people would hear at their live performances. Producers also never got credits (or even points) until a few years earlier and that was mostly because a known producer's name on a record could open doors for an unknown artist.
Credits prior to 1970 were also very complex because these were large sessions and it could easily require crediting twenty or more musicians. Any "fixes" often required hiring a new batch of players and the originals might or might not be available. If a track was edited from different sessions things could get very complicated. (Editing and the various other "fixes" WERE kept quiet.)
We've come a long way in thirty years. Today we have so many technical crutches that most pop records employ only four or five players and these same musicians often play for the same artists' live shows so artists aren't hesitant to prominently credit them. I don't think its fair to apply the standards for recording credits since 1970 to music recorded before that time. It is a completely different situation.
I've actually had a musician tell me that he played a solo not realizing that I had recorded somebody else when I worked on the record. The irony is that most of us who worked at Motown have had a hard time taking much personal credit beyond being extremely proud to have been part of such an incredible team. In fact this has created the odd situation where I have almost never heard of the vast majority of musicians who take credit for playing at Motown. The movie captures what Motown and recording in Detroit was, an amazing accomplishment.
| By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 05:36 pm: |
Bob
You are quite correct about session musicians not being credited at this time. The Funk brother's counterparts in LA namely the 'wrecking crew' played on hundreds of tracks like Phil spector records, the Beach boys, etc, etc, yet for all their glory, people like Hal Blaine and Larry Knetchal, remain unknown to the general public.
There are probably more examples in other cities in the US of great talents like these.
| By Dennis Coffey (152.163.194.192 - 152.163.194.192) on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 09:21 pm: |
Hi folks. I was giving musicians credits on albums in the sixties. I think New York was also doing it. Valerie Simpson told me she had to argue with Motown to put the names of the musicians on an album she produced. I took a solo on that album and was glad she did it. She told me they did it all of the time in New York.
Dennis Coffey
| By bassland (64.165.226.26 - 64.165.226.26) on Monday, May 06, 2002 - 09:53 pm: |
Hi Bob O,
I have to agree with you it was probably not some grand plot designed just to keep the Funk Brothers unknown, for me to hear this line from SITSOM, to para phrase, "You hear about Motown this and Motown that but you never heard much about us" (Joe Hunter) and he goes on to say, he wondered if anybody would ever know what they did, says a lot. It does seems that Berry Gordy wanted to keep the Funks exclusive to Motown. Again I agree with you that it must have been an increadible team with so many musical and technical accomplishments. Thanks for the response.
Hi Dennis,
I do seem to remember seeing player credits from NY and records from other cities before Motown adapted the practice.
BL
| By Tyrone (209.219.209.68 - 209.219.209.68) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 01:18 am: |
Great trailer. Congratulations! Looking forward to seeing it in Atlanta. Also, looking forward for a schedule of the live tour. I, too, for a long time wanted to know about the musicians that played all that beautiful music that I've enjoyed for years and still enjoy.
| By Eli (170.115.179.117 - 170.115.179.117) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 05:02 pm: |
Regarding credits:
There are many albums thatwe Philly mortals played on that were uncredited than the ones that were.Seems that everyone wanted to exist under a veil of secrecy. But as the song says 'Only the strong survive"
| By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 05:50 pm: |
You know there is no other individual I'm aware of who has gone out of their way to support individual Motown musicians and recording engineers the way Valerie Simpson has. Almost everybody I know can tell you about something she has done for them even many years after working at Motown.
| By RALPH (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 06:50 pm: |
TIME TO ARCHIVE THIS THREAD GANG....CONTINUE ON...STANDING IN THE SHADOWS OF MOTOWN 2
THIS THREAD IS NOW CLOSED
| By john lester (213.122.197.70 - 213.122.197.70) on Monday, May 13, 2002 - 07:44 am: |
Ralph...I can't find the second part of this..what is the title of it
The film was shown in New York recently...and I am hoping my good friend who saw it will say something!